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Time to Impeach

Great segment with Michele today as she explained the public uproar over President Bush’s decision to commute the prison sentence of Scooter Libby — I suggest you check out the podcast when we ppost it online Thursday morning. Despite the heavy barrage of calls from the Michael Savage Fan Club we took, Michele endured, reminding us that only 21% of Americans agree with the decision to commute the sentence.

As Michele explained, Bush didn’t issue a full pardon at this point because that would give Libby immunity and allow the Senate to drag him into testifying. Bush did this, in short, because he could. Nothing he could do about Katrina or Iraq or immigration, but here he flexed his muscle and subverted the justice system. A Republican served as special prosecutor and Reagan/Bush appointees served on the appeals panel that considered the case.

The bottom line: Scooter Libby was convicted by a jury of his peers. 33 months is not excessive according to the statistics for cases involving obstruction.

Yes, yes, all Presidents issues pardons and commute sentences, but in this case. W. stood to gain directly from his decision. He did this to keep Libbby quiet and to protect his vice-president.

Let the impeachment hearings begin.

  1. Downtown Bob
    July 4, 2007 at 6:24 am

    “… but Clinton pardoned many people, why is Bush so bad for doing this? (typical Rush listener)
    answer: none of Clintons pardons were done in order for the person being pardoned to avoid jail time, none of Clintons pardons were given to anyone remotely connected to anyone being investigated for issues of national security, and Bill Clinton did not campaign on the issue of bringing honor and dignity back to the White House, Before all you righties start screaming about how Bill Clinton “despoiled” the good of the American Presidency, answer one question first: How many members of the Clinton Administration were convicted of a felony?

    Time to impeach? Without hesitation.
    When the Democrat who gets elected in 2008 has all of the precedents that George W. Bush has set or tried to set, intact, with no challenges to them by our current Congress, will those of you on the right feel that that Democrat President will be any less inclined to push for a “unitary executive” like President Bush has pushed for? Does that worry you? The reason that George W. Bush needs to investigated with impeachment hearings is that the next president and the next and the next need to know, in clearly defined terms, exactly what their authority is and what the consequences will be if they cross that line. The three branches of of our federal government are supposed to be equal.

  2. Downtown Bob
    July 4, 2007 at 6:57 am

    For those of you who have not this, the link is to Keith Olberman’s Special Comment from July 3, 2007. Keith says it all, very well. Please watch the ten minute video and then tell me how or why he (Keith) is wrong.

  3. Anonymous
    July 4, 2007 at 2:00 pm

    It appears that President Bush made a serious mistake in his Commutation Order. As justification for invalidating Libby’s prison sentence, he pointed out that Libby would still be subject to two years probation, a harsh sentence, Bush says (rolls eyes).


    As Judge Walton just noticed, it looks like Libby won’t even serve probation, since, under the federal system, “supervised release,” as it is called, can only follow an actual prison sentence.

    Talk about incompetence. Bush can’t even get Obstruction of Justice right!

  4. Anonymous
    July 4, 2007 at 2:20 pm

    Happy 4th of July folks! No matter what our differences….we have one thing in common…our good fortune to live in the U.S.A.!!! Perhaps we should spend the day safely & blessedly remembering that… & all that made it possible.

  5. Hating Bush again is boring
    July 4, 2007 at 3:22 pm

    Nice try Dave!
    Is there no level to which you won’t stoop to appease your sorrosite handlers?
    You ahve GOT to get a grip!
    Your congress has the lowest approvals ratings in the history of polls and you post a blog topic on Libby. C’mon man! Get into the real world!
    This is exactly why home town radical liberal talk radio is doomed!
    No balance…manipulative posts…avoiding the obvious…4 hours a day and a blog spewing the radical left’s talking points.
    You are smarter than this Dave…much smarter so it leaves us all to wonder what is your real agenda here? Seems fishy to most except your lil lefty puppets you let dominate the airways.
    Take a deep breath and realx, and then let’s talk about “your” congress and house…And the muslim problem we have in the US and the rest of the world.
    This is so beneath you Dave…How much cash is passing under the table for you to take this tack?
    Fess up…or get right with your listeners, your town, and the rest of the world!

  6. 156 Bubba pardons
    July 4, 2007 at 3:32 pm

    You want the truth? here it is!
    156 pardons sold by Bubba “sexpot” Clinton during his folly in the white house…
    Let’s discuss in deatail every one of these…
    That would mean you’d at least be on the air for another 6 months while we look in depth at each of his 156 pardons…
    Don’t believe me? Well here is the list provided by the justice department web page…No right spin here.
    Just the facts Dave…or have you forgotten what those are?

    I dare you lefty radical libs to go here and then dismiss each of them.
    Hypocrits! Cowards! Socialists!


  7. Impeached Bubba pardons
    July 4, 2007 at 3:37 pm

    Opps…sorry “Bubbas pardons”…there are only 147.
    To be accurate here they are.
    Good post though…lost on all libs though

    Benjamin Berger
    Ronald Henderson Blackley
    Bert Wayne Bolan
    Gloria Libia Camargo
    Charles F. Campbell
    David Ronald Chandler
    Lau Ching Chin
    Donald R. Clark
    Loreta De-Ann Coffman
    Derrick Curry
    Velinda Desalus
    Jacob Elbaum
    Linda Sue Evans
    Loretta Sharon Fish
    Antoinette M. Frink
    David Goldstein
    Gerard A. Greenfield
    Jodie E. Israel
    Kimberly Johnson
    Billy Thornton Langston Jr.
    Belinda Lynn Lumpkin
    Peter MacDonald – President of the Navajo Nation
    Kellie Ann Mann
    Peter Ninemire
    Hugh Ricardo Padmore
    Arnold Paul Prosperi
    Melvin J. Reynolds – Democratic Congressman from Illinois – bank fraud and obstruction of justice
    Pedro Miguel Riveiro
    Dorothy Rivers – lead official in Jesse Jackson’s Rainbow/PUSH Coalition, plead guilty to theft of 1.2 million dollars in federal grant money
    Susan Rosenberg
    Kalmen Stern
    Cory Stringfellow
    Carlos Anibal Vignali – convicted of cocaine trafficking
    Thomas Wilson Waddell III
    Harvey Weinig
    Kim Allen Willis
    Kimba Smith
    Antonio Camacho Negron – FALN militant

    Full Pardons

    Verla Jean Allen (1990 false statements to an agency of the United States)
    Nicholas M. Altiere (1983 importation of cocaine)
    Bernice Ruth Altschul (1992 money laundering conspiracy)
    Joe Anderson Jr. (1988 income tax evasion)
    William Sterling Anderson (1987 defraudment of a financial institution, false statements to a financial institution, wire fraud)
    Mansour Azizkhani (1984 false statements in bank loan applications)
    Cleveland Victor Babin Jr. (1987 using the U.S. mail service to defraud)
    Chris Harmon Bagley (1989 conspiracy to possess with intent to distribute cocaine)
    Scott Lynn Bane (Unlawful distribution of marijuana)
    Thomas Cleveland Barber (Issuing worthless checks)
    Peggy Ann Bargon (Violation of the Lacey Act, violation of the Bald Eagle Protection Act)
    David Roscoe Blampied (possess with intent to distribute cocaine)
    William Arthur Borders Jr. (Conspiracy to corruptly solicit and accept money in return for influencing the official acts of a federal district court judge (Alcee L. Hastings), and to defraud the United States in connection with the performance of lawful government functions; corruptly influencing, obstructing, impeding and endeavoring to influence, obstruct and impede the due administration of justice, and aiding and abetting therein; traveling interstate with intent to commit bribery)
    Arthur David Borel (Odometer Rollback)
    Douglas Charles Borel (Odometer Rollback)
    George Thomas Brabham (Making a false statement or report to a federally insured bank)
    Almon Glenn Braswell (1983 mail fraud and perjury)
    Leonard Browder (Illegal dispensing of controlled substance and Medicaid fraud)
    David Steven Brown (Securities fraud and mail fraud)
    Delores Caroylene Burleson, aka Delores Cox Burleson (Possession of Marijuana)
    John H. Bustamante (wire fraud)
    Mary Louise Campbell
    Eloida Candelaria
    Dennis Sobrevinas Capili
    Donna Denise Chambers
    Douglas Eugene Chapman
    Ronald Keith Chapman
    Francisco Larois Chavez
    Henry Cisneros (former HUD Secretary)
    Roger Clinton, Jr. (half-brother of President Bill Clinton)
    Stuart Harris Cohn
    David Marc Cooper
    Ernest Harley Cox Jr.
    John F. Cross Jr.
    Reickey Lee Cunningham
    Richard Anthony De Labio
    John Deutch (former Director of Central Intelligence Agency)
    Richard Douglas
    Edward Reynolds Downe
    Marvin Dean Dudley
    Larry Lee Duncan
    Robert Clinton Fain
    Marcos Arcenio Fernandez
    Alvarez Ferrouillet
    William Dennis Fugazy
    Lloyd Reid George
    Louis Goldstein
    Rubye Lee Gordon
    Pincus Green
    Robert Ivey Hamner
    Samuel Price Handley
    Woodie Randolph Handley
    Jay Houston Harmon
    Rick Hendrick
    John Hummingson
    David S. Herdlinger
    Debi Rae Huckleberry
    Warren C. Hultgren Jr.
    Donald Ray James
    Stanley Pruet Jobe
    Ruben H. Johnson
    Linda Jones
    James Howard Lake
    June Louise Lewis
    Salim Bonnor Lewis
    John Leighton Lodwick
    Hildebrando Lopez
    Jose Julio Luaces
    James Timothy Maness
    James Lowell Manning, (1982, aiding and assisting in the preparation of a false corporate income tax return)
    John Robert Martin
    Frank Ayala Martinez
    Silvia Leticia Beltran Martinez
    John Francis McCormick
    Susan H. McDougal
    Howard Mechanic
    Brook K. Mitchell Sr.
    Samuel Loring Morison
    Charles Wilfred Morgan III
    Richard Anthony Nazzaro
    Charlene Ann Nosenko
    Vernon Raymond Obermeier
    Miguelina Ogalde
    David C. Owen
    Robert W. Palmer
    Kelli Anne Perhosky
    Richard H. Pezzopane
    Orville Rex Phillips
    Vinson Stewart Poling Jr.
    Norman Lyle Prouse
    Willie H.H. Pruitt Jr.[1]
    Danny Martin Pursley Sr.
    Charles D. Ravenel
    William Clyde Ray
    Alfredo Luna Regalado
    Ildefonso Reynes Ricafort
    Marc Rich – tax evasion fugitive
    Howard Winfield Riddle
    Richard Wilson Riley Jr.
    Samuel Lee Robbins
    Joel Gonzales Rodriguez
    Michael James Rogers
    Anna Louise Ross
    Dan Rostenkowski – Former Democratic Congressman convicted in the Congressional Post Office Scandal
    Gerald Glen Rust
    Jerri Ann Rust
    Bettye June Rutherford
    Gregory Lee Sands
    Adolph Schwimmer
    Albert A. Seretti Jr.
    Patricia Campbell Hearst Shaw
    Dennis Joseph Smith
    Gerald Owen Smith
    Stephen A. Smith
    Jimmie Lee Speake
    Charles Bernard Stewart
    Marlena Francisca Stewart-Rollins
    Fife Symington III – former Arizona governor
    Richard Lee Tannehill
    Nicholas C. Tenaglia
    Gary Allen Thomas
    Larry Weldon Todd
    Olga C. Trevino
    Ignatious Vamvouklis
    Patricia A. Van De Weerd
    Christopher V. Wade
    Bill Wayne Warmath
    Jack Kenneth Watson
    Donna Lynn Webb
    Donald William Wells
    Robert H. Wendt
    Jack L. Williams
    Kavin Arthur Williams
    Robert Michael Williams
    Jimmie Lee Wilson
    Thelma Louise Wingate
    Mitchell Couey Wood
    Warren Stannard Wood
    Dewey Worthey
    Rick Allen Yale
    Joseph A. Yasak
    William Stanley Yingling
    Phillip David Young
    Keith Sanders
    Darren Muci
    John Scott (not a full pardon)
    Anthony M Pilla

    You dug a hole for yourself this time Dave.
    Maybe Tom was onto something?

  8. 140 pardons on bubbas last day
    July 4, 2007 at 3:46 pm

    Bill Clinton has been intensely criticised by friend and foe alike for issuing a last-minute presidential pardon to a fugitive commodities trader, Marc Rich, after lobbying by prominent Israelis and political donors.

    The decision to pardon Mr Rich, who fled to Europe 18 years ago to avoid 51 charges of tax evasion, racketeering and illegal trading with Iran, has become the most controversial of the record 140 pardons Mr Clinton issued on Saturday, just hours before he handed over the presidency to George Bush.

    Mr Rich’s pardon covers all the charges against him, which included cheating the US government out of $48m in taxes and trading with an enemy by defying trade sanctions against Iran while more than 60 Americans were being held hostage in the US embassy in Tehran in 1978-80.

    A central role was also played by Mr Rich’s former wife Denise, who has given more than $1m to the Democrats, as well as giving the maximum $10,000 donation to Mr Clinton’s legal defence fund. Mrs Rich is a hugely rich and ambitious Manhattan hostess who has regularly showered the Clintons with gifts.

    Two coffee tables and chairs given by her were among gifts worth more than $190,000 (£130,000) which Bill and Hillary Clinton took with them when they left the White House last week, an action which prompted the Washington Post to say in a leader yesterday that the Clintons “have no capacity for embarrassment”.

  9. Downtown Bob
    July 4, 2007 at 4:28 pm

    bubba pardons: You haven’t answered my question: How many Clinton Administration officials were convicted of a felony?

    Unlike the rabid Bush supporters, most on the left have no problem criticizing actions taken by Democratic leaders. The Marc Richardson pardon was wrong, period. The sheer number of pardons doled out by Clinton leave a bad taste in everyone’s mouth, left or right.

    Did you follow the link to the Special Comment by Keith Olberman? One of his quotes was: “I didn’t vote for him but he’s my president, and I hope he does a good job.” – That quote was from 1960 when John Wayne heard that John Kennedy had narrowly defeated Richard Nixon. Listen to the comment by Keith to get the full context of the quote. My reason for bringing it up here is that Congress is not just “my” Congress, nor was the last session “your” Congress; the current members of Congress are our Congress. I fully believe that the approval ratings of Congress will go up substantially when they do get around to starting Impeachment hearings.

  10. Paul
    July 4, 2007 at 4:49 pm

    Maybe I’ve got this mixed up, but wasn’t Bill Clinton impeached for doing exactly the same thing as Scooter Libby? (Actually he should be convicted of being a grown man who goes by the name “Scooter”).
    Anyway, the public outcry sounds a lot like this- zzzzzzzzz.

  11. Anonymous
    July 4, 2007 at 5:04 pm

    Nice try “downtrodden Bob”…
    How many Clinton officials commited a felony? Well how bout Bubbs himself! And the lil weasel got impeached for it! and you libs will never give up trying impeach one od our guys to balance the scales.
    Bottom Libby was a witch hunt and we all know it.
    Bubba lied under oath, had sex with a young intern in the oval office while still married. The man is a joke, but alas, he’s all you libs got.

    Bob…listen up…140 or 156? Bubba was a discrace to the office and will always be lableled the worst slimiest president we have ever had.

    The libs hate that and always will.

    as for the libby pardon…who really gives a Sh**?

    We are safe, and rich, and healthy.

    and ther libs hate that too!

    140 pardons in his last hours as president? Give me a break! Bubba is an idiot. alsways has been…always will be.
    Even his lesbian wife can’t save him from himself

  12. Anonymous
    July 4, 2007 at 6:12 pm

    Wait! Can this be right? Clinton pardoned 140 convicted felons in his last few hours as president?

    If this is right then what in the hell are we doing about a lil guy named “Scooter”?

    This hate Bush stuff is getting very very old Dave.

    Move on…no pun intended!

    (this kind of stuff will not be good for the new owners to see!)

  13. Anonymous
    July 4, 2007 at 7:49 pm

    is there any correlation between blog topics like this one and the new york times, under soluzberg’s leadership, losing 1 million dollars a day for the past quarter?
    Or the senate & house’s poll numbers being the lowest since polling began?
    and the sale of a radio station that has radical left talk shows?
    You be the judge.
    The jury (the American people) have already decided!

    “Let the impeachment hearings begin” says Dave…
    They aleady did! and Bubba was only the 2nd president ever impeached.

  14. Dave Congalton
    July 4, 2007 at 8:45 pm

    It is interesting to see the conservative talking points rehashed so faithfully on this thread.

    As Michele asked yesterday, why didn’t Bush just pardon Libby? Why is he doing it this way? And why is this one incident so different from all the pardons by Clinton and previous Presidents?

    It all goes to MOTIVE, folks. Bush gains personally from protecting Libby and getting him to keep his mouth shut.

    How did Clinton gain personally from that laundry list you’ve posted?

    Also remember that 79% of the American public disagrees with this decision. Pretty telling.

    Happy 4th!

  15. Downtown Bob
    July 4, 2007 at 9:53 pm

    xuadlmolanonymouse: …Nice try “downtrodden Bob”…
    How many Clinton officials commited a felony? Well how bout Bubbs himself!

    I asked how many had been convicted of a felony, not allegedly committed one. An Impeachment is an indictment; an indictment has to be brought before a case can go to trial. An impeachment vote was approved by the Congress in President Clinton’s case, but, he was not convicted in the Senate; in fact the Senate refused to vote to even hear the Impeachment case brought by the House. So, Bill Clinton was not convicted of a felony. NO MEMBER OF THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION WAS CONVICTED OF A FELONY DURING HIS TERM IN OFFICE! Period.

  16. New owners of KVEC
    July 4, 2007 at 10:03 pm

    Dave, with all that is going on in our world, the best topic you can come up with is Scooter Libby?
    hmmmm not good. Not good at all!

    We all know that Clinton made milions off his pardons. 1 million alone off the Rich pardon. The total may be as hig as 30 million he took in from his illegal and inappropriate pardons. All 147 of them, and all at the last hour so nothing could be done.
    We also know that Clinton makes over 10 million a year from the muslims in Dubai.

    Think it through Dave. KVEC is a strong supporter of Rush & Sean and the Savage nation!

    Are you sure you want to go down this path? Especially after you lost Tom to all this lefty obsession.

    We are watching

  17. Poll Taker
    July 4, 2007 at 10:08 pm

    Downtrodden Bob…stop focusing on felonies. Let’s focus on the 52 mysterious deaths that occured during Bubba’s reign of sex in washington. You can’t convict a dead man!

    Dave, your democtatic house & senate approval rating is below 14%! What about a voice for those people? 79% works for you if you agree with them…but 86% don’t count because it doesn’t support your liberal agenda.

    That’s 100% BS!

  18. Roger Clinton
    July 4, 2007 at 11:06 pm

    I must thank my brother in public for doing the right thing. Thanks Bro!

    1. Conspiracy to distribute cocaine, 21 U.S.C. § 846
    2. Distribution of cocaine, 21 U.S.C. § 841(a)(1)

    I don’t know any family secrets and I was framed by Bush and he should be impeached.

  19. the ghost of christmas past
    July 4, 2007 at 11:18 pm

    All you Bush-haters are just fueling the fires of vengence with your insipid calls for impeachment. If you were so unfortunate to actually get enough votes to get articles of impeachment before the house, you wouldn’t have enough votes in the Senate to convict…just like the Republicans miscalculated with Clinton. Setting up more stupid reprisals based only on bad blood and politics. Sour grapes on parade for the world to see. The bottom line is that there is nothing illegal with anything that Bush has done his entire 6.5 years in office. If there was something illegal, such as your bogus Obstruction of Justice charge, then you’d have my support. But what was Scooter convicted of anyway? He forgot who he told the truth to about a case that wasn’t a case at the time he forgot who he told what to. And that is not a crime. Let me grill you for 40 hours asking the same set of questions in multitudes of different ways and I will have enough to charge even you Dave with Obstruction of Justice. Fitzgerald knew that Richard Armitage was the shithead that leaked Valerie Plame’s name a week after the inquizition started and you all don’t give a squirt of piss about that. Only that Scooter Libby was convicted by a “jury of his peers”. My ass. How many of the jury members ever voted Republican? Answer: zero. You couldn’t have found a more hostile jury for Scooter Libby if you tried.

    Face it (and I know you will all live in denial over this) but Michele and everyone who thinks Bush anbd Cheney should be impeached are clinically insane. Afterall, Bush pardoned a guy with bad memory about a case he was only involved in on the periphery. Unlike Clinton that actually pardoned convicted terrorists, traitors, drug dealers and murders… oh, and his own brother. Bush benefited from the pardons? And Clinton’s Library and massage parlon didn’t get millions of dollars from the former Mrs. Marc Rich for his pardon? What hypocracy.

  20. Anonymous
    July 4, 2007 at 11:55 pm

    Time for a new topic Dave…you’re getting creamed here!

    How bout the house & senate approval ratings being the lowest since polls began…and way under Bush’s

    Opps…sorry! mu bad! That doesn’t fit with your radical left agenda.

    silly me to think this blog is fair & balanced…

    Just remeber…we warned to move back to the center.

  21. Marc "Rich"
    July 5, 2007 at 12:40 am

    Thanks Bubba, I was also framed like our brother Roger

    Wire fraud, mail fraud, racketeering, racketeering conspiracy, criminal forfeiture, income tax evasion, and trading with Iran in violation of trade embargo, 18 U.S.C. §§ 1343, 1341, 1962(c), 1962(d), 1963, and 2; 26 U.S.C. § 7201, 50 U.S.C. § 1705, and 31 C.F.R. §§ 535.206(a)(4), 535.208 and 535.701

    I’ve got “Hillary Fever”

  22. Lil' Al Gore III
    July 5, 2007 at 1:42 am

    How much does a pardon cost?

  23. Paul
    July 5, 2007 at 2:17 am

    So is Michele reading minds now? Ooo- she’s good. She’s like the pet psychic and S.M. Bill all rolled into one.
    So how much did it cost to prosecute Scooter anyhow?

  24. Anonymous
    July 5, 2007 at 2:37 am

    Clinton got millions for his pardons!
    I million just from the Rich pardon.
    The number is reported to be as high as 30 million dollars for those outrageous 11th hour pardons!
    All 147 of them.
    are you all not disgusted at that?

  25. Celia
    July 5, 2007 at 5:20 am

    What a pack of crap this is! How dare you all lie and say that no one was pardoned for a felony, that no one was pardoned to profit the president etc. The pardon itself is a decision the President has to arbitrarily pardon or commune anyone’s sentence that they have a whim to do so. There is no reason or justification needed. I personally believe that Bush pardoned a man that was caught contradicting himself after hours and hours of testimony before a grand jury. You try and keep straight exactly when and where you heard something two years before and then testify about it for hours and hours. Bush did not pardon so Libby could still appeal the sentence. There was no crime in mentining Plame’s name to anyone, since she had been known in the DC area as well as not fitting into the classification of a covert agent according to the law. The Libby “crime” occured in the search for a crime that never was committed.

    Secondly, here is the Highest White House Cabinet Member that should have been a felony, but apparently the friendly justice department at the time reduced it to a Misdemeanor and he was pardoned by Clownton.

    In March 1995, U.S. Attorney General Janet Reno secured the appointment of an Independent Counsel, David Barrett to investigate allegations that Cisneros had lied to FBI investigators during background checks prior to being named Secretary of HUD. He had been asked about payments that he had made to former mistress Linda Medlar, also known as Linda Jones. The affair had been ‘public knowledge’ for a number of years – during the 1992 presidential campaign, U.S. Treasurer Catalina Vasquez Villalpando publicly referred to Cisneros and candidate Clinton as “two skirt-chasers” – but Cisneros lied about the amount of money he had paid to Medlar. The investigation continued for three and a half years.

    In December, 1997, Cisneros was indicted on 18 counts of conspiracy, giving false statements and obstruction of Justice. Medlar used some of the Cisneros hush money to purchase a house and entered into a bank fraud scheme with her sister and brother-in-law to conceal the source of the money. In January, 1998, Medlar pleaded guilty to 28 charges of bank fraud, conspiracy to commit bank fraud and obstruction of justice.

    In September, 1999, Cisneros negotiated a plea agreement, under which he pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor count of lying to the FBI, and was fined $10,000. He did not receive jail-time or probation. He was pardoned by President Bill Clinton in January 2001 ( See: List of people pardoned by Bill Clinton). The independent counsel investigation continued after the pardon focusing on alleged obstruction of justice. In May 2005, Senator Dorgan (D-ND) proposed ending funding for the investigation; negotiators refused to include the provision in a bill funding military operations in Afghanistan. The funding at that point for the investigation totaled $21 million.

    According to a New York Daily News report on October 3, 2005, “lawyers are fighting to suppress a potentially embarrassing final report from the probe that found Housing Secretary Henry Cisneros lied to the FBI about paying $250,000 in hush money to his ex-mistress. … Lawyers at the Washington firm Williams and Connolly who work for Cisneros and both Clintons have argued to judges overseeing the case that allegations of illegal activity, for which no charges were filed, should be snipped before the report is made public.” [2].

    On January 19, 2006, the New York Times reported that the independent counsel is finally closing his investigation with a report accusing the Clinton administration of thwarting the inquiry into Cisneros. [3]

    The office of the independent counsel issued a press release along with the final report stating:

    An accurate title for the Report could be, “WHAT WE WERE PREVENTED FROM INVESTIGATING.” After a thorough reading of the Report it would not be unreasonable to conclude as I have that there was a coverup at high levels of our government and, it appears to have been substantial and coordinated. The question is why? And that question regrettably will go unanswered. Unlike some other coverups, this one succeeded. [4]

    The Independent Counsel’s report has been a source of partisan bickering because it was heavily redacted with an estimated 120 pages removed by court order. [5]

    Souce: Wikipedia

    Have a great day Liberals! The 4th of July is here and Libby is not going to go to prison like Bill Clinton should have! 🙂

  26. Downtown Bob
    July 5, 2007 at 7:13 am

    Roger Clinton was not a member of the Clinton Administration. Nor was Marc Rich. Henry Cisneros was indicted for felony charges, but was convicted of a misdemeanor. I find it interesting that all of you righties want to focus on the sheer number of pardons that Clinton processed, and are desperate for a way to diminish the impact of what President Bush has done. You will attempt to justify the commutation as a means of not interfering with Scooter’s appeal, but that does not diminish the point Michele made about the commutation being a means of keeping Mr. Libby from not only avoiding jail time, but the commutation also keeps him from being called before the Congress for testimony.

    “Republican Congressman Ron Paul says President Bush has presided over a system wide doctrine of violating the Constitution at every turn and that he should be impeached”…
    …”I would have trouble arguing that he’s been a Constitutional President and once you violate the Constitution and be proven to do that I think these people should be removed from office.”

    Celia: US President George Bush admitted, in his weekly radio address on December 17, 2005, that he ordered the National Security Agency (NSA) to conduct electronic surveillance of US citizens without seeking warrants. The admission followed the publication of the story in the New York Times on December 16 that approximately 500 such warrantless searches were being conducted at any given moment continuously for the last 4 years. That is a violation of the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution, an impeachable offense. You want more since I’m sure that only one violation of the Constitution wouldn’t be enough for the Bush hardliners, so, here you go:
    1. manipulated intelligence and media so as to allege falsely a national security threat posed by Iraq

    — provided a forged document dated October 2000, describing the sale of uranium to Iraq by Niger to the International Atomic Energy Commission and used that sale in the State of the Union Address

    (TRUTH: CIA claimed that Bush knew beforehand that the document was bogus.)

    — justified war against Iraq by providing false information, including weapons of mass destruction (WMD)

    “Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised.” – Bush’s Address to the Nation (March 17, 2003)

    “Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. There is no doubt he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us.”
    – Cheney’s Speech at Veterans of Foreign Wars 103rd National Convention (August 26, 2002)

    (TRUTH: No WMD)
    – misled the nation to believe Iraq was linked to the terrorist attacks of September 11th by Al-Qaeda

    “He (Saddam Hussein) was a threat because he had used weapons of mass destruction against his own people. He was a threat because he was a sworn enemy to the United States of America, just like Al-Qaeda. He was a threat because he had terrorist connections — not only Al-Qaeda connections, but other connections to terrorist organizations.” – Bush (New York Times 6-18-2004)

    “If we’re successful in Iraq…we will have struck a major blow right at the heart of the base, if you will, the geographic base of the terrorists who have had us under the assault now for many years, but most especially on 9/11.” – Cheney (Meet The Press 9-14-2003)

    (TRUTH: Commission Investigation Report on Sept. 11 terrorist attacks found no “collaborative relationship” between Iraq and the Al-Qaeda terrorists. The only relationship was that Al-Qaeda contacted Iraq for support but was rejected. Al-Qaeda terrorists didn’t operate in Iraq until after the invasion by the U.S. military forces.)

    2. deceived the Congress on the rationale for a war of aggression against Iraq and miscarried the action of the Congress

    (Violation of the Federal Anti-conspiracy Statute, 18 U.S.C. § 371 and The False Statements Accountability Act of 1996, 18 U.S.C. § 1001)
    — submitted a false report and a letter (March 18, 2003) to the United States Congress on the reasons for launching a ‘pre-emptive attack’ on Iraq (Downing Street Memo, dated July 23, 2002, revealed that by the summer of 2002, President Bush had decided to launch a war against Iraq with the justification of terrorism and WMD based on ‘fixed’ facts and intelligence.)

    (Violation of Article 1 Section 8)
    (TRUTH: The Oct. 2002 resolution passed by the Congress gave Bush the authority “to take action in order to deter and prevent acts of international terrorism against the United States….” The resolution never granted the president authority to declare war on Iraq. In fact, only Congress can declare war for the United States.)

    (Violation of Article II Section 3)
    — shifted money allocated by Congress for the war in Afghanistan to the war in Iraq. (President can only execute the laws passed by Congress.)

    3. ignoring the executive duty to protect the American citizens and the country

    — failed as leaders in their dereliction of duty in preventing September 11 terrorist attacks
    (Commission Investigation Report on September 11 terrorist attacks noted that the Bush Administration received heightened warnings of possible terrorist attacks in the summer of 2001 and a presidential daily briefing (August 6, 2001 – a month before September 11) regarding an imminent terrorist attack on U.S. soil.)

    (Violation of Bill of Rights: Fifth Amendment)
    — denying the citizen’s constitutional rights for a fair trial
    (Confining American citizens without charges and denying their fundamental rights for due process of law.)

    — diverting military resources from pursuing known terrorists in Afghanistan
    (As the Commander-in-Chief, Bush diverted military resources from Afghanistan to Iraq. Instead of conducting an all-out effort in pursuing known terrorists, such as Osama Bin Laden who have repeatedly attacked the United States of America, the U.S. military forces were diverted to invade and occupy Iraq. To this day, Osama Bin Laden remains at large and still a threat.)

    4. waging an illegal war in Iraq

    (Violation of Article VI)
    — defied the decisions of the United Nations against attacking Iraq is a violation of the UN Charter

    (Violation of Article VI)
    — committing a war of aggression is a violation of the Nuremberg Charter
    (killing and injuring hundred thousands of civilians)

    (TRUTH: By violating the International Laws that the U.S. agreed to by treaty, Bush has violated the “supreme Law of the Land.”)

    (Violation of Article VI and Article III Section 3)
    — authorizing the use of torture on detainees in prison camps, such as the infamous Iraq’s Abu Ghraib and Cuba’s Guantanamo Bay
    (As the Commander-in-Chief, Bush is accountable for the U.S. military personnel in violating the Geneva Convention and the U.S. Constitution against torture ratified in 1994.)

    (TRUTH: Since Bush’s declaration of “Mission Accomplished” at the end of Iraq war four years ago, the deaths and injuries of U.S. soldiers and Iraqis continue to climb every day. Despite a newly established Iraqi government, Iraq remains unstable and its future unclear.)

    This is only a partial list since it is from 2005, I only changed the amount of time listed in the last paragraph of Bush’s “Mission Accomplished” speech.

  27. Anonymous
    July 5, 2007 at 12:59 pm

    Downtrodden Bob! Great copy-n-paste! You are the bomb!

    But you are going to get very tired trying to defend 147 pardons…

    Face it! You guy is s slimeball.

    The most dicraceful president in the history of our nation and not one will ever come close to his antics and law breaking again.

    Bubba the sex pot felon! Thank God he’s gone!

  28. Elizabeth Halverson
    July 5, 2007 at 1:01 pm

    Its amusing that the lefty loons (Bob)say Bush stole two elections,knew about 9/11, invaded Iraq, Abu garb, gitmo, torture chambers,war crimes,and 900 other things, that “scooter” has pushed their pathetic, retarded brains into a fit. Hilarious!!!!

  29. Celia
    July 5, 2007 at 2:59 pm

    Downtown Bob,

    You are so arrogant to state that he was only convicted of a misdemeanor. Did you even read what he did but was let off of the hook?

    **In December, 1997, Cisneros was indicted on 18 counts of conspiracy, giving false statements and obstruction of Justice. Medlar used some of the Cisneros hush money to purchase a house and entered into a bank fraud scheme with her sister and brother-in-law to conceal the source of the money. In January, 1998, Medlar pleaded guilty to 28 charges of bank fraud, conspiracy to commit bank fraud and obstruction of justice.

    In September, 1999, Cisneros negotiated a plea agreement, under which he pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor count of lying to the FBI, and was fined $10,000. He did not receive jail-time or probation. He was pardoned by President Bill Clinton in January 2001


    Scooter was accused of giving ONE false statement, not given any bargains, and not given a pardon yet so he can win his appeal for this witch hunt process crime.

    And Downtrodden Bob tried to say that Clinton pardoned no one facing jail time.

    Downtown Bob said…

    “… but Clinton pardoned many people, why is Bush so bad for doing this? (typical Rush listener)
    answer: none of Clintons pardons were done in order for the person being pardoned to avoid jail time, none of Clintons pardons were given to anyone remotely connected to anyone being investigated for issues of national security, and Bill Clinton did not campaign on the issue of bringing honor and dignity back to the White House, Before all you righties start screaming about how Bill Clinton “despoiled” the good of the American Presidency, answer one question first: How many members of the Clinton Administration were convicted of a felony?

    Ha ha ha Bob, check your sources before you make yourself appear foolish with such ridiculous inofrmation from error america or the daily kook blog.

    P.S. Dave, are you going to have a program about why Gore is such a bad father to his kids since they have a drinking and partying problem? Oh wait, that is just Bush. Gore’s offspring drives their Pruis over 100 wasting gas, and is so depressed about the end of the world that they need all these pills to cope with Gore and Tippers horrible hypacritical parentage. That is very sad! LEts have the show and match the Bush bashing that you had on before.


  30. Anonymous
    July 5, 2007 at 6:22 pm

    A couple of generations ago, didn’t they call outing a CIA agent treason?

    So much for Judith Miller going to prison for six months to protect her source!

  31. Downtown Bob
    July 5, 2007 at 8:17 pm

    anonymouse: Face it! You guy is s slimeball. You must have meant to type Your guy is a slimeball? President Bill Clinton was not my guy, he was our President. Am I proud of what he did while in office? Absolutely not proud of his personal “affairs”, and I was very disappointed by some of his policies and official actions while he was in office. I did not vote for George W. Bush in 2000, and I still do not believe that he was duly elected to office (appointed by a 5/4 vote of the Supreme Court is not elected); however, when our nation was attacked on 9/11, I, along with virtually everyone in the US shut up and stood behind President Bush to show the world that we as a nation were united in our disgust at the attack that killed so many of our citizens. As time wore on and President Bush violated more and more of our Constitutional rights, as he lied to Congress and the American people about why he had to attack Iraq, he became less and less “our” President. With his commutation of Libby’s sentence, he has, as Keith Olberman put it, ceased to be the President of the United States in all but name, but has become the leader of a far right faction of our society that believes that the ends justify the means, no matter whose liberties are trampled, whose privacy is compromised, and what laws are broken including violating the Constitution. George W. Bush may be our President, but he is certainly not my man. Only Richard M. Nixon had lower approval ratings of any contemporary President; even the so-called slimeball Bill Clinton left office with approval ratings President Bush can only dream of.
    Elizabeth Halverson: The actions of President Bush concerning Scooter Libby is only one of some of what you listed as reasons for his ill standing as President. Had Bush let the Libby matter alone and not interceded, he would be a little less reviled.
    Celia: So I am the arrogant one? As bad as Henry Cisneros was or is for doing the nasty things he did, none of it concerned the Administration he was serving. The crux of the Libby situation is that all of his “crimes” were in service to his bosses. He was convicted of four felony counts, not just for “not being able to remember a conversation”.
    All of you righties can swing this that way and back, call out all of the pardons that Clinton gave and moan all you want; what remains is that this is the highest ranking official of an administration to face felony convictions since the Iran-Contra affair under Ronald Reagan. Nothing you say or do will change that fact. Get over it.

  32. Anonymous
    July 5, 2007 at 8:56 pm

    I think “Downtown BoB” has “Hillary Fever”

  33. Anonymous
    July 5, 2007 at 11:52 pm

    Bob is a sitting President allowed to give pardons? Has Keith Olberman ever had a guest on who disagrees with him? Have you ever had a original thought?

  34. Anonymous
    July 6, 2007 at 1:09 am

    Copy-npaste Downtrodden Bob,
    You will never win trying to defend bubba the slime ball…undisputed biggest jagoff president we have ever had…or ever will.
    When ya dump your spunk on a blue drees of a civil worker in the oval office…you are dead meat for eternity.
    Now wise up Bob…Find a new drum to beat.
    hard to say who is getting creamed here worse…you or your master dave.

  35. Keith Olberman
    July 6, 2007 at 1:13 am

    Wow! Somebody actually listens to me? Cool.
    Bill Orielly-millions of viewers
    Keith Olberman-1

    Bless you Bob!

  36. computer teacher
    July 6, 2007 at 1:15 am

    Bob, I’m having my mullet trimmed this coming Monday…
    Can you sit in and teach my computer class for me that day?
    The topic is “Copy-n-Paste”
    You will do great!
    from your lefty friend in comfortable shoes!

  37. Downtown Bob
    July 6, 2007 at 2:29 am

    Countdown with Keith Olbermann” (8:00 to 9:00 pm ET) continues its ratings surge, up +81% in total viewers (818,000 v. 452,000) and +73% in the demo (292,000 v. 169,000) over a year ago. “Countdown” maintained its lead over CNN, with a +9% advantage in total viewers and a +7% advantage in the demo. CNN delivered 749,000 total viewers and 273,000 in the demo for the month.”

  38. Fox dominates cable news
    July 6, 2007 at 2:41 am

    Downtrodden Bob?
    Is there no ;evel to which you won’t stoop to defend your fellow sorrosites?
    Bubba slime ball & Keith Ovaman?
    I chuckle every time I see you post.
    Have you no shame? well you must…since you don’t post with your real name.
    For the record CNN is all bust bankrupt! The least trusted name in news second only to PMSNBC.
    Flip to Fox and learn the real truth. Or conservative talk radio that dominates 93% ove the airways. and why? because people want the truth.
    Try it. It may surprise you.

  39. Anonymous
    July 6, 2007 at 2:49 am

    Fox News currently leads the cable news market in the United States, earning higher points ratings than its chief competitors CNN and MSNBC COMBINED! More people are actively watching Fox News Channel at any given time than either of the other two failing networks.
    Read it and weep!

  40. Jerry's Conscience
    July 6, 2007 at 3:57 am

    “Flip to Fox and learn the real truth. Or conservative talk radio that dominates 93% ove the airways. and why? because people want the truth.
    Try it. It may surprise you.”

    Like I’ve said before, Joseph Goebbels would be damn proud of you Jerry. You’re just the type of person he loves.

  41. Bishop Peak Eddie
    July 6, 2007 at 4:07 am


    You are not able to answer your false assertion that Clinton did not pardon anyone facing prison time.

    You are not able to answer the fact that Cisneros was protected by Mrs. Clinton and stomewalled the investigation until 2006. Even the NYT reported that, Clinton lovers they are.

    You are not able to understand the electoral system that we have in the United States and how Bush won in 2000.

    You are not able to believe the facts that dozens of newspapers counted Florida’s votes and none came up with a victory in Florida.

    You will not acknowledge that Ill. and Missouri changed the election rules to help the democrats by extending voting and allowing deceased to vote.

    You are not able to acknowledge that others who do not agree with you may just have a different point of view, but you must assume they are ignorant and stuipid.

    Can’t we all just get along and acknowledge other points of view without the hate Bob?

  42. Anonymous
    July 6, 2007 at 4:25 am

    The left does not require understanding nor a defensable position for those it has brainwashed to copy-n-paste for them.
    The Bush haters think they have won. They have not.
    The airways are full of truth that they hate and wish to control.
    And nothing will ever stop that. This country will always belong to the faithful patriots willing to seek truth and then act on it.
    The secomd ammendmaent insures our victory.
    Thank you founding fathers. May you all rest in peace.

  43. youngman
    July 6, 2007 at 5:06 am

    checking in here,i think “global warming” has made a real impact on dtbob

  44. youngman
    July 6, 2007 at 5:24 am

    bob is allowed to be wrong all the time everytime and if you dont liketo bad. fairness rules

  45. Anonymous
    July 6, 2007 at 1:48 pm

    the libs have been creamed on this topic…time for a new one!

    How about a topic on the house & senates approval rating ratings being the lowest since polling began?

    Fairness? hmmm we’ll see

    (I can’t wait to see Downtrodden bob’s copy-n-pastes that will denfend dingy harry & nambla nancy and the way they have ruined the house & senate such that only 14 people out of every 100 support their devisive politics.)

  46. Hoosier21
    July 6, 2007 at 3:28 pm

    Much ado about nothing. So we have a guy who was convicted of having a bad memory about a crime that turned out not to be a crime. The case was a total fraud.
    Mr. Fitzgerald knew in the first week who had recommended Mr. Wilson to go to Niger and who had ousted Mrs. Plame. Why then did he continue the investigation when he had no mission? While prosecutors can pretty well do what they want, it is not considered de rigueur to prosecute for perjury in an investigation in which there is no crime. The case should have been thrown out by the judge. The whole thing was a fishing expedition to see what they could catch.
    As allowed in Article II of the constitution, the President did what was the right thing to do and granted a reprieve. The pardon will follow in 09. Making the right decision is not always the most popular, but it is still the right decision.
    Downtown Bob, a bank robber is a bank robber whether he is convicted of the crime or not. Whether Clinton had anyone convicted of a felony or not is not a good argument. Felonies were committed. They were just not prosecuted for their felonies. Resigning from office and plea bargaining to a lesser offense does not change the fact that a felony had been committed. It only changes what they were convicted of. When two companies (Tyson Food & Diamond Sun) pleads guilty and convicted of bribery of a public official and that public official resigns (Epsy) and pleads to a lesser charge, it does not mean he didn’t commit a felony. Sandy Bergers offense is one of the worst. Stealing and destroying secret documents that the 911 commission needed to get to the frame of mind of the Clinton administration about the terrorist threat prior to 911 is abominable. Yet, they lessen the charges and he actually will be off probation in time to serve the next Democratic President. And, there are others. Let’s use some common sense here. Valerie Plame gave two different stories to the investigation and was never charged with perjury. Pure and simple witch hunt.

  47. the ghost of christmas past
    July 6, 2007 at 4:43 pm

    Bob, you are so delusional. Everything you site as your rationale for impeachment is based on your biases and your interpretations of charters and laws, and your assumptions. Was Johnson prosecuted for illegally waging war against North Vietnam? Was Clinton prosecuted for illegally waging war against Yugoslavia? No, of course not because the UN Charter does not supercede US law. None of what you said rises to the level of an impeachable offense.

    What you and your psychotics on the left fail to understand is that you all should just let this go. Bush is officially a lame duck with the failure of the immigration amnesty bill. He has almost no power to influence anything now. Unless John Paul Stevens or Ruth Buzzy Ginsberg drops dead, he is done. Chasing Bush and bringing bogus impeachment charges will only perpetuate the climate of political revenge that has been going on for the last 14 years. We need new blood, which means no Hillary Clinton. If Hillary wins, count on all of the dirty laudry from the Clinton years being dredged up as the Republicans battle Hillary for her past transgretions. The ’08 election should be the “ABC” election, Anybody But Clinton.

    Get a grip, Bob, and take your Prozac. You are behind on your meds.

  48. Hugh Rodham
    July 6, 2007 at 6:07 pm

    I agree with Bob, the President has crossed the line with the Libby pardon.

  49. Anonymous
    July 7, 2007 at 4:12 am

    Thank you SO much for having SM Bill back on the radio tonight. He was frigging fantastic and I love how he ripped those conservatives to shreds.

  50. Dave Congalton
    July 7, 2007 at 4:16 am

    From Saturday’s LA Times:

    “Wearied by the lack of progress in Iraq and by the steady stream of military funerals back home, a growing number of Republican lawmakers who had stood loyally with President Bush are insisting his strategy has failed and calling on him to bring the war to an end.

    In the past two weeks, three GOP senators — including one of the party’s leading voices on foreign affairs and one of Bush’s strongest allies — have urged the president to change course now so U.S. troops can start to withdraw.

    And Friday, in interviews with the Los Angeles Times, two more Senate Republicans bluntly voiced disappointment with the president’s approach and pressed for change.

    “It should be clear to the president that there needs to be a new strategy,” said Tennessee Sen. Lamar Alexander. “Our policy in Iraq is drifting.”

    New Hampshire Sen. Judd Gregg, who helped lead the charge earlier this year against Democratic efforts to oppose Bush’s troop “surge,” said: “We don’t seem to be making a lot of progress.” He said it is vital to have “a clear blueprint for how we were going to draw down.”

  51. Anonymous
    July 7, 2007 at 4:26 am

    Please stay on topic…even if you libs are getting your butts kicked!

    Only one person matters regarding the war…and that my friend is the president.

    So relax and let’s get back to slimey presidential pardons…ok?

    How many did clinton give in last 2 hours as president? 140 or 147!

    hahahaha! you libs will never win this debate…bubba is dead meat for eternity!

  52. Elizabeth Halverson
    July 7, 2007 at 4:28 am

    Dave it seems you pull the string on the back of Bill’s head and then sit back and play dumb. Why?
    I thought you were more like Tom Madsen.

  53. Dave Congalton
    July 7, 2007 at 8:18 am


    It is absolutely amazing to me that the best so many of you can do is go Clinton-Clinton-Clinton, as if anything George Bush does is excused because of something Bill Clinton did. I simply don’t understand the logic.

    All presidents have issues pardons. Some, like Marc Rich have been controversial and I certainly don’t agree with that one.

    But as we have patiently tried to explain to you and your ilk, Libby is different. Bush intervened prior to Libby going to jail, overriding a Republican judge, a Republican special prosecutor and bypassing his own scandal-plagued Justice Department to commute the sentence.

    Bush did it for personal reasons. He did it to protect him and Cheney from whatever secrets Libby was capable of revealing. This is a man who presided on dozens of executions in Texas withoout blinking, but he supposedly intervenes in this case because the sentence is too harsh?

    And that’s why so many posts on this blog simply stink of crapola. No independent thinking or analysis. You refuse to discuss Bush and Libby, but dwell on a guy who hasn’t been in office for almost eight years.

    Here’s my bottom line: When it comes to Scooter Libby, I find more faith in the work of the special prosecutor, the judge and the jury and not President Bush. He continues to be the worst president in modern history. Today 45% of Americans stood up and said it’s time to consider impeaching that pretender.

    So keep those cheap shots coming. And I repeat my pledge to any and all of you: SANTA MARIA BILL INVITES ANY OF YOU. ANY. ONE. OF. YOU. TO COME ON THE SHOW AND DEBATE HIM ONE ON ONE ON ANY CLAIM HE’S MADE.

    Any takers?

    I didn’t think so…..

  54. barry in los osos
    July 7, 2007 at 1:59 pm

    Debate, that twisted old windbag throws out opinion as fact, which some people(Dave)believe. Opinions become fact to partisans if they are repeated enough.
    That’s standard operating procedure at hometown radio, move on, Air americas ,codestink etc. or any other lefty outfit for that matter.

  55. Anonymous
    July 7, 2007 at 3:46 pm

    Dave said:
    Some, like Marc Rich have been controversial and I certainly don’t agree with that one.
    that ONE??
    So Dave, you agree with the other 146 last minute chickensheite pardons?
    And you ahve a problem with logic? hahahahah! libs are so funny…so narrow minded…so brainwashed by sorros!

    as for Santa Maria bubba. How hard up can a talk show host be to put a blithering idot on the air like snat maria bubba? This guy is an ebarassment to all who listen.

    Dave, you are losing your grip bud!

    Dawn leg? code pinkos, SM bubba? You ahve totally lost it!

    Libby forgot what he said after 40 hours of questioning. Get a grip Dave! You are blowing hot air.

    and why? Because your house and senate have done nothing but put hundreds of thousands of teens out of work because they raised the minimum wage…other than that they have squat except to give themselves a raise!

    All libs are embarasswed by this do nothing congress! So you pick (hate) Bush to drive the attention away from dingy harry & nambla nancy. have you no shame?

    58 comments on libby? have you had enough yet of getting slammed by what bubba blue dress did? You will never ever win this debate. You guy is a sleezeball! always was…always will be and he will without doubt go down (no pun intended) as the worst slime ball crotch hound president in the history of this nation!

    Now…I dare you Dave…right here! Post a topic on your house and senate?
    Not to would prove you are as chickensheite as bubba and SM bubba!

    You still wonder why there are no debate takers? hahahaha! cuz SM bubba is an idiot!

    we’re waiting…

  56. Thomas W
    July 7, 2007 at 5:02 pm

    It is amazing to me that so many answer dave’s challenge with slurs against SM Bill, but no answers. What Clinton did is not relevant. He has been out of office for almost seven years. I certainly don’t agree with everything he did, Who could? However what does he have to do with the present President?
    Today, fifty more Iraqi’s were killed and eight more good Americans shed their final blood in a cause that I personally felt was wrong in the first place.
    Come on, Bush supporters, answer the Challenge, don’t waffle around with specious arguments and deviations from the issue. I know you are not cowards, however, by avoiding Dave’s challenge you are making yourselves appear so.

  57. Thomas W
    July 7, 2007 at 5:36 pm

    This is a ps to my last epistle. Since I put that up, the death count for Iraqi’s, just today mind you, is conservatively up to 120 with another 200 wounded. The local police chief on the scene placed the death toll at 150 with 245 wounded. It is now very difficult to get accurate numbers on dead and wounded because our current administration has put restrictions on released figures of Iraqi victims so reporters have to rely on those officials that will talk off the record or some very brave officers on the scene that are disgusted enough and wiling to talk. Just like the restrictions on showing the coffins of our American brave men returned home has curtailed news people here at home. The problem with Mr. Libby’s commutation of sentence is that now there is no incentive for him to provide any information concerning the alleged wrong doing of any members of the administration. No government should be allowed to operate under a veil of secrecy. I don’t care what president we are talking about
    Revealing the actions and thoughts of any elected/appointed official is not a threat to national security. Revealing troop movements and strength is!

  58. Dave in Los Osos
    July 7, 2007 at 5:53 pm


    So many times SM Bill and Michelle have been presented with facts, and they simply sidestep them and ask 10 other talking points to the person who refutes one of their facts. Never answering the contradiction. An example is Downtown Bob when he stated that Clinton never pardoned anyone in his own administration or anyone facing serious jail time. The contrary was pointed out, and Bob just pasted some other points on about how he may have, but then no one before a final verdict on their sentence…when contradicted again since Marc Rich was in hiding in Europe while his wife was sleeping with Clinton and giving him over 1 million dollars then Marc go a pardon.

    And Mrs. Clinton…talk about scooter not telling the truth, she got envelopes for pardon requests with money in them, but she never looked inside of them or reviewed them, just dutifully passed them on.

    Bottom line Dave is that you on the Socialistic side have no problem with the Clinton pardons, but want President Bush run out over a pardon of a guy who made a misstatement over a non-criminal violation and was denied bond on appeal for a process crime. How many other people do you think are denied bond for something as white collar as that? Berger? Anyone? No, the judge knows that he will be over ruled and Libby will win on appeal and just wanted to make political points by throwing him in prison for as long as possible.

  59. George s patton
    July 7, 2007 at 9:20 pm

    You wake and live each day under the freedom Bush and our brave military provide and then you question the manner in which they provide it!
    I suggest you shut the hell or pick up a gun and stand a post! In either case I dont give a damn what you think!
    We fight those towel heads in dirty night shirts there or here…I choose it be there!
    Good luck the next time you visit your sand donkey doctor! He may just kill you for allah right before he drives a car into a building.
    Stop all imagration of muslims! Deport those that are here…camps for those that won’t leave.
    America will be safe as long as a conservative with a heart and a brain is in office…even if you don’t think so.
    Freeking pinkos! wise up!

  60. SM Bubba
    July 7, 2007 at 9:23 pm

    All I know is the memorized talking points…
    I can’t do a debate!
    debates require thinking…all I do is memorize and sit in my lil dark room all alone…waiting for Dave to call.

  61. Paul
    July 7, 2007 at 10:12 pm

    Dave, I think you are missing the point, we think that what Libby did is a non-issue and that all your speculation about why Bush pardoned him is just that- speculation. With an extremely negative bent.
    Just because you say he did it to cover something up doesn’t mean that is what happened.
    The reason we keep bringing up Clinton is because we are amazed at your side’s hypocracy, And Clinton is just the easiest way to point that out. We could also bring up Jackson, Sharpton, Ried, Gore, Boxer, Fienstien, and I could find more but I don’t want to waste anymore of my time. All these folks have ethical if not criminal asterisks by their names, but you guys don’t care at all. Yet you will take even the slightest hint of scandal with this administration to the most ridiculous extremes.
    Bob said- “Unlike the rabid Bush supporters, most on the left have no problem criticizing actions taken by Democratic leaders.”
    That is so far from the truth that it makes my stomach hurt. I can’t believe you would say such a thing.
    Good luck with your impeachment guys, I hope you like the bed your making.

  62. Anonymous
    July 8, 2007 at 12:55 am

    Paul please remeber that Bob only pastes here what they tell him to paste.
    He actually doesn’t have an original thought in his radical left brain!
    I did like your post!
    Hits the nail right on the head!
    The left has no morals only goals set by others that dominate their thinking and actions.
    Well done

  63. Downtown Bob
    July 8, 2007 at 5:20 am

    To respond to those who claim that I said: “An example is Downtown Bob when he stated that Clinton never pardoned anyone in his own administration or anyone facing serious jail time.”; read what I typed, moron. It is right there in the first sentence of the first comment of this thread. Perhaps you have collapsed the comments so here it is again: “none of Clintons pardons were done in order for the person being pardoned to avoid jail time, none of Clintons pardons were given to anyone remotely connected to anyone being investigated for issue of national security,…”. Show me where I typed what you “quoted” me as typing. It isn’t there.
    What is evident by the comments by the righties here is that; you cannot justify the commutation President Bush gave to Mr. Libby in any way, shape or form, and you cannot even try to do so without invoking your hatred for all things Clinton.
    Here is a challenge for the right: Provide a link or a url to either an accredited news site or an official government site that shows proof that President Clinton pardoned anyone in his administration for a felony conviction that had anything to do with the workings of the Clinton Administration. The crux of the dispute with Bush’s commutation is that he did so to protect his administration from investigation, subpoena or summons to testify before Congress. Prove that Bill Clinton did the same and I will apologize and not mention the Libby commutation again. It will be curious to see if any comments can be made about this challenge without a juvenile name calling, purposeful name mangling, or a reference to George Sorros. And keep up the misspelling, it really gives your comments some authenticity.

  64. Anonymous
    July 8, 2007 at 5:59 am

    Another 100 people died today in Iraq, but all the Chickenhawks keep posting on this blog, just like your hero Rush Limbaugh. He talks tough, but when it was his turn to serve, he ducked and ran.

    Isn’t it funny that nobody is accepting Dave’s challenge to debate Santa Maria Bill?

    Rushbo would be so proud!

  65. Dave Congalton
    July 8, 2007 at 6:19 am


    Thanks for the post, but let’s rujn through it one more time.

    I have explained on this blog and Michele explained it in great detail on the show — check on the podcast. The Bush commutation of Libby is not comparable to Clinton on any number of levels in terms of timing, motivation, etc. They are completely different animals. I’m not going to rehash it again–it’s like beating my head against the wall.

    Here’s why:

    You accuse me and my ilk of hypocrisy. I, in turn, accuse you of living in “Bizarro World.” It goes like this. Bush can do no wrong in your eyes. No wrong. No matter what he does. No matter what bonehead stunt he pulls, you immediately jump back to Clinton. You don’t want to engage in serious discussion of Bush. It’s all about Clinton 24/7.

    The recent attorney general snafu is a perfect example. I wish I had a dollar for every time Heil Hannity went on the radio and said “Well, Clinton fired all the U.S. attorneys.” We all know that once again the two situations aren’t comparable.

    So Paul, when does this stop? When you stop these flashbacks to better days for conservatives when it was fun to sit around and crack jokes about Monica and Clinton and impeachment? When do you start taking responsibility for your guy and what is happening on your watch.

    Let me remind you….Bush promised that he would clean up government, restore integrity and make us proud again. NOT! Bush promised to be a united, not a divider. NOT! Can you give me one single positive thing that has been accomplished by Bush in his second term? Just one? NOT!

    Instead, we hear this crapola about Bill Clinton, wohm by the way is gar more respected by the people of the world than W. will ever be. Or we get this crapola about Bush’s problems being caused by the liberal media.

    But it’s never Bush’s fault, is it, Paul? The guy has never screwed up in his life according to you world vision. If you read his biography, it is one personal fuck up after another and Daddy’s friends have always had to bail him out.

    Now look at the country. He has extremely low approval ratings. This guy makes Carter look like Abe Lincoln. 45% of Americans are now willing to consider impeachment hearings against Bush and more than 50% against Cheney — that’s twice as many people who wanted Clinton impeached ten years ago.

    Meanwhile, Republican after Republican is deserting this President. Check out the new series in the Washington Post about what’s happening on Capitol Hill. Bush and Cheney are toxic and everyone is running from them.

    Meanwhile, Tony Blair got shown the door because the British thought he was Bush’s poodle. We are despised around the world and Bush has isolated us from our allies.

    So by any measure, Paul, Bush is a failure: public opinion, Republican Party support, international opinion. Take your pick.

    Forget Clinton. He’s not the man in charge. History will deal with him. Any bets as to whom will get the better treatment? Focus on Bush and his record and what he is up to — own up to your guy and take some responsibility for the Worst President in Modern History.

  66. Dave Congalton
    July 8, 2007 at 6:25 am


    Sunday’s front page story in the LA Times has the death count from Saturday up to 150 in Iraq.

    Here’s the opening paragraphs of the story, suggesting our current strategy is failing:

    “The neighborhood outposts that the U.S. military launched with great fanfare in Baghdad early this year were supposed to put more American patrols on the streets and make residents feel safer. But some soldiers stationed at the posts and Iraqis who live nearby say they are doing the opposite.

    The outposts, along with joint U.S.-Iraqi security stations, form a cornerstone of the current Iraq strategy. Following a classic counterinsurgency tenet, military planners are trying to take U.S. forces out of their distant, sprawling military bases and into the day-to-day lives of Iraqis.

    Although senior U.S. commanders and mid-level officers say they believe the bases are starting to work, many soldiers stationed at the outposts are doubtful, arguing that the burden of protecting the bases means they spend less time on the streets.

    “They say we are spending more time ‘in sector,’ which we are doing — we live here,” said Spc. Tyrone Richardson, 24, a member of Charlie Company, 1st Battalion, 8th Cavalry, that operates in the east Baghdad neighborhood of Ubaidi, outside Sadr City. “But we aren’t spending the time patrolling.”

    Iraqis who live nearby say they feel less safe now, because many of the bases have quickly become magnets for rocket and mortar attacks. When attacks miss the troops, they often hit Iraqi civilians.

  67. Dave Congalton
    July 8, 2007 at 6:39 am

    A final p.s. to Paul —

    I just went back and found the Chicago Tribune editorial on the Bush commutation of Libby. Those of you familiar with the Midwest know that this Tribune is the bastion of Republican politics. It is the Republican print mouthpiece for the part of the country.

    So check out THEIR criticism of Bush:

    “Do the crime, do the time

    Published July 3, 2007

    The crimes were serious, the jurors unanimous, the sentencing judge plainly perturbed at the defendant’s felonious behavior. And so, four weeks ago, Vice President Dick Cheney’s former chief of staff, Lewis “Scooter” Libby, got what he had coming: 30 months in a federal slammer.

    On Monday, though, President Bush commuted Libby’s prison sentence. That leaves Libby, 56, with a $250,000 fine, a lengthy probation and a public humiliation that, no matter how long he lives or what else he accomplishes, will define the first paragraph of his obituary.

    But in nixing the prison term, Bush sent a terrible message to citizens and to government officials who are expected to serve the public with integrity. The way for a president to discourage the breaking of federal laws is by letting fairly rendered consequences play out, however uncomfortably for everyone involved. The message to a Scooter Libby ought to be the same as it is for other convicts: You do the crime, you do the time.

    The bizarre and politically tinged case that produced Libby’s wrongdoing shouldn’t obscure the seriousness of his offenses. Most of us are blessedly in the process of forgetting the saga that erupted around one-time CIA operative Valerie Plame, whose name surfaced in the public prints in 2003. Who in official Washington had leaked her identity?

    That case meandered far from its origins; no one was ever charged with the leak. But somewhere along that twisting path, Libby decided to break tenets of the legal system he had sworn to uphold. Jurors convicted him of two counts of perjury, one count of obstructing justice, and one count of making false statements about when and how he learned Plume’s identity, as well as what he told Washington journalists about her.

    U.S. Atty. Patrick Fitzgerald of Chicago, the special prosecutor who directed the Plame inquiry, has done a succinct job of explaining why those crimes so profoundly undermine our justice system: “When someone doesn’t tell the truth to the system, everyone suffers. The legal system suffers because we don’t know what the actual facts are. And, frankly, lots of other people suffer since, when you don’t know what the truth is, people draw all sorts of conclusions.”

    True enough — just as people will draw conclusions about a president who commutes the sentence of his vice president’s right-hand man. As someone intricately involved in helping Cheney on national security issues, Libby served the interests of the same president who on Monday declared incarceration “excessive” punishment for “a first-time offender with years of exceptional public service.”

    That’s the sort of unconvincing piety Illinois defense attorneys murmur after their clients are sentenced in public corruption cases here. It’s a lame excuse in Chicago and, on Monday it was a lame excuse in Washington too.”

  68. wilson
    July 8, 2007 at 1:09 pm

    Dave we could have never won WWII with pinheads like you reveling in US soldiers body count.

  69. Anonymous
    July 8, 2007 at 2:48 pm

    and the winner of the copy and paste contest between dave and downtrodden bob is…(drum roll)
    Only a true secular progressive sorrosite lefty wpuld waste their time hating a lame duck! laughable!

    You libs want impeachment pay back so bad you will do anything to get it…you are all like junk yard dogs going after that bone that has no meat on it! Chew all ya wnat…Bush is in the clear.

    You libs want the focus off Bubba slimeball sex pot because his lesbian socialist wife is running for office and you know his antics will keep her from ever seeing that bible in the swearing in ceremony (how ironic eh?)

    No crime was comitted in the libby scandal. None! and yet you lefty loons won’t drop it.

    The next president will have to deal with the war on terror and Iraq. and woe be to the lib that exits Iraq and then let’s a terrorist attack happen on American soil! That scares you the most!

    Notice to all radical libs…Relax! Let history take it’s course. Bush is outta here ina few short months. Let’s focus on the new president and who it will be and why. Leave talk radio alone. Immagration is dead…87% of all Americans want the borders closed first…Illeagals deported then we’ll talk, and NOT until. Get it?
    Socialized medicine is not the answer! It is in fact the death nail in the libs coffin if it ever happens because it won’t work! Deal with it.
    What does that leave us with? Well you have a socialist lesbian and muslim raised half breed running for the office. Scarry eh? It is to most Americans! 54% say that they will not vote for billary for any reason…so if she gets the nomination we will ahve yet another republican president. And no half breed muslim with a name like “Hussein” will ever see the oval office…period!

    Bubba is a huge embarassment to all Americans. World wide we look like idiots to have ever put that sociopath in office. Most Americans want to forget the devil & his blue dress!

    Copy-n-patse all you want Dave and Bob…have at it. but the bottom line is neither of you have anoriginal thought in your heads except to hate Bush. That idiology has killed newspaper sales…killed the MSM drive by media…and helped surge the listenership of all conservative talk radio. You think you are hurting us yet you have helped us greatly!

    as for me…
    1) Close the borders…build the wall…fine business into oblivion for hiring illegals (like they are doing in Arizona!) and deport the law breaking, health care ruining, education system destroying mexicans back to the hell they came from!
    2) Stop all immagration from ANY muslim nation. Stop all mosque building in america. Deport all muslims out of the US ASAP!
    Start profilling brown big nosed fanatics in dirty nightshirts and kick those islamic radicals in the perverbial balls in Iraq till they run back to their caves!

    time for tough love here! like it or not…watch how things go! Afterall now you got sand monkey doctors killing free people around the free west!
    wake up libs! stop your copy-n-paste and think for yourselves!
    or…you are doomed.
    Marke my words…this is far from over. And it’s over when “WE” say it’s over. Not one second sooner. Like it or not we are in power and always will be…you loathe that. But all your hate won’t change the truth!

  70. bubba hater
    July 8, 2007 at 2:59 pm

    downtrodden bob said:
    “Here is a challenge for the right: Provide a link or a url to either an accredited news site or an official government site that shows proof that President Clinton pardoned anyone in his administration for a felony conviction that had anything to do with the workings of the Clinton Administration.”

    Let’s investigate the 53 mysterous murders that Clinton ordered during his sexual antics in the whitehouse then we’ll talk bobby boy!
    Bubba was smart…if you kill em they can’t testify!

    answer me this bob-n-patse…
    How did Ron Brown get a bullet in his skull in an airplane crash?? hmmmm. Google the autopsy reports pal! Then humbly submit your apology!

  71. Rudy McCain
    July 8, 2007 at 4:53 pm


    Read these last two diatribes from anonymouse and bubba hater (perhaps the same person?).

    I would once again just like to thank President Bush for being such a uniter and not a divider!

  72. Loyal patriot
    July 8, 2007 at 8:00 pm

    True! Bush has united all those that still love this country and what makes it great…the divide has come from the socialite imoralists that hate America and want to destroy it by making it like europe.
    Thank you President Bush for making things so crystal clear.
    You loyal national patriots stand behind you…and we are armed and ready to take on the other side.
    Thnaks rudy for your post! you hit the nail right on the head!

  73. Anonymous
    July 8, 2007 at 11:47 pm

    As of about an hour ago, the score was 220 Iraqi dead, well over 300 wounded. Only two Americans dead and only three more wounded.
    Boy, the surge is really working, isn’t it.

  74. brave american soldier
    July 9, 2007 at 12:19 am

    Yes it is working as a matter of fact…but you wouldn’t know that if all you listen to for news is the MSM and liberal print rags!
    We have those islamic rats on the run!
    Squashed em in Great Britian, and they haven’t whispered a peep on American soil since Bush put his foot down and said “no more!”
    We need to keep pushing…and killing those goat eating scabs until there is nothing left but empty foot bath stations.
    The surge has worked and is working and will keep working and why? 2 reasons.
    First because it’s working
    Second because our president and our brave military have “a pair”, unlike all the liberal socialist secular progressive panty waisted brainwashed spineless whimps!
    Go W Go!

  75. Goerge s patton listen up
    July 9, 2007 at 12:46 am

    A Message from the Ghost of General Patton….
    To those whining, panty-waisted, pathetic Maggots, it’s time for a little refresher course on exactly why we Americans occasionally have to fight wars.
    See if you can tear yourself away from your ‘reality’ TV and Starbucks for a minute, pull your head out of your flabby ass — and LISTEN UP!!
    Abu Ghraib is not ‘torture’ or an ‘atrocity’.
    This is the kind of thing frat boys, sorority girls, and academy cadets do to newcomers
    A little fun at someone else’s expense.
    Certainly no reason to wring your hands or get your panties in a wad.
    9-11 was an atrocity!
    beheading Americans is an atrocity
    Islam a peaceful religion???
    Millions of these sons-of-bitches are plotting as we speak to destroy our country and our way of life any way they can. Some of them are here among us now.
    They don’t want to convert you and don’t want to rule you. You are a vile infestation of Allah’s paradise. They don’t give a shit how ‘progressive’ you are, how peace-loving you are, or how much you sympathize with their cause.
    They want you dead , and think it is God’s will for them to do it.
    Some think if we give them a hug or listen to them, then they’ll like us… and if you agree? Then you are a dumb ass!
    If they manage to get their hands on a nuke, chemical agents, or even some anthrax — you will wish to God we had hunted them down and killed THEM while we had the chance.
    Stop bitchin’ about your damn Health Care, Social Security, Gas prices, and your measly 3.25% unemployment rate…and start worrying about you, your family’s, and your friends’ asses.
    How many more Americans must be beheaded.
    You’ve fallen asleep AGAIN, maggots!
    And you may not get another chance!


  76. Dave Congalton
    July 9, 2007 at 2:12 am

    Hey Brave American Soldier —

    Any counter-terrorism success we’ve had since 9-11 can be traced to LAW ENFORCEMENT, not military. I know Bush would love to take credit for everything, but let’s hear it for the men and women who truly make it happen and keep us safe.

  77. Paul
    July 9, 2007 at 4:47 am

    Dave ,

    My point was- you don’t know the motivation. You can guess, you can speculate, but your bias will affect your opinion. What you or Michelle say is not anymore than that. You can rehash it or not all you want, it’s still just your opinion.

    As far as Bush doing no wrong in my eyes- here’s a list.

    1.He tried to pad his case about going into Iraq when he didn’t need to. Saddam (RIP) broke his agreements for ending the first Gulf war. End of story.

    2.He didn’t get Social Security reform done.

    3. Hariot Myers

    4.He screwed up the execution of the war in Iraq. Before you start salivating, I think we should Bomb Iran and Syria too. We aren’t fighting this war like we need to. They are fighting us.

    5.Not building the fence, and trying to pass the immigration bill.

    Here’s something else-
    The republican congress spent money like democrats.
    Now they are seeking employment else where.

    In case you didn’t notice, it was conservative opposition that stopped Myers and the immigration bill. Our guys, who you accuse of being in lock step with the Whitehouse are affecting policy by disagreeing and making it known to them.

    Your guys on the other hand were swept into power on the promise to get our troops out of Iraq, and guess what? They aint gonna do it!
    At least Cindy Shehan had the balls to not let them use her anymore. What’s your excuse?

    Firing lawyers is not a crime, nor is it unethical. It may even be a virtue.

    You know the funny thing about uniting is that it takes a village. The first thing your guys did was trash the whitehouse on the way out, then you started in with cute little programs like “That’s My Bush” and novels about killing the president. Every hand of peace he has offered, you chewed off. It doesn’t seem to bother him so I guess I should let it go. But the disunity in this country rests squarely on the shoulders of the left. The only way to have peace with you is to let you have your way, and shut up about it.
    Well- No. We won’t. You can piss and moan and cuss and be as vulgar as you want you just reinforce the reasons we don’t want you in power.
    Why do we continue to support George W?
    Because you guys are the alternative and that is infinitely worse.
    Sorry this is so long.

  78. Downtown Bob
    July 9, 2007 at 6:20 am

    To the “anonymouse” who posted right after wilson: Did you even read my challenge? I asked for proof that Bill Clinton did pretty much the same thing George Bush did with Scooter Libby; I mused about how there would be misspelling, that there would be deliberate juvenile name calling, and that Clinton would be used as an excuse again- Dude, you hit the trifecta! Nice job! Now, pull your head out of your ass and offer up some proof that Clinton did anything that came close to what Bush has done in attempting to protect his administration. Your constant repeating of the talking point that Scooter didn’t break any laws is as ignorant as you must be. FOUR FELONY CONVICTIONS! What is so hard about that for you to wrap your head around? Is this Rush’s latest talking point: “Scooter Libby didn’t break any laws; what’s the big deal?” Four Convictions; read the link and then deny the truth again. It is a little hard to tell, so explain this to me; do you enjoy avoiding the truth when it is inconvenient to your beliefs, or are you really so gullible that you will believe anything that Rush says, or, are you just plain stupid?
    bubba hater: Do you have any, you know, PROOF that Bill Clinton ordered assassinations of US citizens? I thought the conspiracy theorists were supposed to be on the left side only. In your bizzaro world, does any of these so-called executions benefit or protect the Clinton Administration in any way? If they do, in your opinion, please post a link or copy or type in the url to an accredited news site or a government site that offers any corroborating evidence to your claim. The wingnut blogs do not count, as I am asking for facts, not speculation or theories. Good luck with that.

  79. Rich from Paso
    July 9, 2007 at 11:43 pm

    Here is the bottom line on the Scooter Libby commutation: he was convicted of a crime that had nothing to do with the underlying reason for the investigation.

    Let me break it down for you like the 4th graders you are:

    1. Fitzphong knew after one week that Richard Armitage was the original source of the leak of Valerie Plame’s name. No criminal charges have yet to be filed against the man for whom the investigation was seeking to find.

    2. Scooter Libby was subjected to interogations in front of the grand jury on five different occasions, many lasting as many as 8-hours. I am not a career prosecutor and I am confident that I can ask the same question 10 different ways and get the best of you to screw up enough to bring “obstruction of justice” and “lying to a grand jury” charges against you.

    3. Speaking of Ostruction of Justice, what justice was being obstructed? Did Scooter Libby prevent Fitzphong from discovering who leaked Plame’s name? No, Fitzphong new that before he asked Scooter Libby the first question.

    4. On the count of lying before a grand jury, what did Libby lie about? Was it his knowledge of who leaked Plame’s name to the media? No, because no one, by Fitzphong’s own admission, did anything criminal regarding the leak of Valerie Plame’s name to the media. So what did Libby lie about? Supposedly, Libby lied about who he told the truth to first. Did he tell Tim Russert that Valerie Plame was Liar Joe Wilson’s wife or was it that guy from Time magazine? that is what was at the central issue of the trial. Both Russert and the Time guy contradicted Libby’s recollection of when they heard Plame’s name from Libby and that enough to get you convicted of a felony in the Washington D.C. area.

    5. On the subject of “national securiyt” that Liar Joe Wilson and all you liberals out there like to hang your hat on with this conviction, did the fact that Libby could not accurately recall who he told what to regarding the name “Valerie Plame” enough to jeopardize national security when the fact that Richard Armitage was the orignal leaker and not criminally liable was not? Ask yourself this question, “why does Scooter Libby have a felony conviction on his record and didn’t leak Plame’s name and Richard Armitage doesn’t have a felony conviction and he did leak her name? Where is the justice in that?

    6. “Jury of his peers”?!?! What bunk!! There was not a single registered Republican on that jury. The jury stacked with Moveon.org members and avowed anti-Bush people. There were so many in the jury pool that Libby’s lawyers ran out of strikes. This was as tainted a jury pool that has ever existed. For that matter, if justice can be handed down by any 12 homo sapiens sapiens walking the planet, then we need to put back in jail everyone that has been released based on DNA evidence that contradicts the findings of a “jury of thier peers”. We need to put back in jail or back on death row, every black man that was convicted by a white jury. Becasue if political ideology is irrelevant in the selection of a jury of your peers than anyone can be on a jury and it does not matter who is on your jury or what they belief. Dave, you are a self-described atheist. Would you want a jury composed solely of right wing evangelical Christians? Marilyn, as a Muslim, would you be comfortable with a jury composed solely of the families of the victims of United flight 93? That is the level of animous that this jury held for Libby. Furthermore, that entire jury was lying when they said they could decide Libby’s fate irrespective of thier own preconceived biases? It just can’t be done.

    7. So what was the orignal motivation to convict Libby and not Armitage? Revenge. Fitzphong resented Libby because Libby was the lead attorney for Marc Rich. You remember Marc Rich. The sma eguy that traded with Iran while our citizens were held hostage in on our soil in that country. He failed to pay his taxes, then fled the country, prefering to live in exile than to do what is right. Fitzphong hated Libby for defending Rich.

    8. For Bob: your insistence on attackng the Bush Adminstration vis a vie the felony conviction during the Clinton Administration is specious. If and when Scooter Libby’s appeal is heard and this convictionis overturned, which I think it will, your argument will be pointless. The score will be back to zero to zero. But the Clinton Adminstration did have several people that were charged with felonies only to have them pled down to misdemeanors. Clinton himself pled guilty to lying, paid a $25,000 fine and was disbarred in Arkansas in order to prevent federal perjury charges against him, a felony if convicted. What about Sandy Berger who had a plea bargin after he stole and destroyed documents pertaining to the Clinton Administration pre-9/11 efforts? That would have been a felony conviction had the prosecutors wanted it. But you say that it is no big deal since he wasn’t convicted of a felony? Whatever, Bob. You are getting more and more deranged the longer the Bush Administration goes on. Personnally, I don’t really care to compare the Libby commutation against the 140 midnight pardons of Clinton. The Clinotn ones are much much worse. Libby was convicted of a process crime felony for something that wasn’t, in the end a crime. Marc Rich is a traitor, the FALN guys are terrrorists, his brother, Roger, is a convicted drug user, Rostenkowski is still a criminal on and on ad nauseum. But Clinotn pardoned them after they served all of their time in the cases of Roger and Rosti. Why? It makes no other sense than he was just taking an eraser to the law and wiping out the convictions of his best buddies. 140 of his best buddies. Don’t give me this shit that Clinton didn’t profit from this. That is straight bullshit.

    9. So, why did Bush commute the jail term for Libby? I think mainly because Fitzphong demanded that Scooter Libby do his appeal from prison. Think about this: Scooter Libby is a career public servant that was convicted of a victimless white collar process crime during an investigation that yeilded no convictions for what was being investigated and he needed to go to jail immediately? Why? Look at number 7. Fitzphong hated Libby. Even Rudy Guilani, who worked with Fitzphong when he was a federal prosecutor, said that 30 months was excessive for what he was convicted of. I strongly feel that if Libby had been aloowed to remain free pending appeal, which is not unusual, the Bush would not have commuted the prison sentence. But since fitzphong demanded it and the judge gave it to him, tehy forced Bush’s hand. It was not to silence him or keep him quiet as Keith Over-done hollered, it was because Bush did not think that any jail was proper for what he was convicted of. You liberals are a victim of your own greed and desire to get a Bush Administration member behind bars.

    10. Finally, SM Bill and Keith Over-done, who I had more respect for when he was on Sportscenter doing what he actually knew something about, demand Bush’sresignation or impeachment, I laugh. Nothing here is impeachable and there is no physical evidence of an iompeachable crime. There is only biases, agendas, inuendo, interpretation and supposition that is supposed to be enough to bring impeachment charges against Bush. There wasn’t enough to impeach Clinton with either, even though he did end up pleading guilty to the same crime he was impeached over. You guys have no problem to continue poisoning the political well because all you are going to do is point your finger and blame Bush for it. GET OVER BUSH!!! He is gone in 18 months and the next president should NOT be a Bush or a Clinton. That way America can get over the last 20 years of Bush-Clinton-Bush and come back together in the middle over something other than the policies of either two families.

    Healing begins with true change. An Obama or Edwards presidency or a Guiliani or Thompson presidency would help start the process through change.

  80. Dave Congalton
    July 10, 2007 at 7:53 am


    Sorry, we can’t and won’t get over Bush. We are going to spend every day of the next 18 months reminding you and your pals about President Bush and all the terrible things he has done to this country.

    He was YOUR guy. From 2001 to around 2005, people like me who dared to question this President, who dared to suggest he had no clothes, well, we were told to shut up, we had our patriotism questioned.

    Now, finally, the truth has been revealed. The incompetence grows by the day. This is very much about George W. Bush and he has much to account for. Bring on the investigations. Brings on the hearings.

    Thanks to the Republicans, we spent $75 million investigating the Clintons during the 90s. It seemed so important to get at the “truth” back then. Well, now, we need the truth even more.

  81. Downtown Bob
    July 10, 2007 at 8:00 am

    Rich, Celia: Here is a link to the US Department of Justice website, in particular showing all of the pardons done by Bill Clinton. By my unofficial count, I counted 431 Presidential pardons and commutations. Each pardon shows the person’s name, crime, date of conviction, and date of pardon. In looking at every single one of them, I found one from 2001 for a former director of the CIA who was found to have classified information on a non-secure laptop computer. He apparently was only charged right before Clinton left office and Clinton chose to give him a pardon at that time. There were two other conviction dates of sometime in 2000 that were in the 2001 pardon list that may or may not have had any jail time, so I will correct my initial statement now: It appears that there were potentially three people that received a Presidential pardon that may not have served any jail time, not counting the infamous pardon of Marc Rich. The former CIA director I don’t think was convicted so his pardon could have been a preemptive pardon. Now, the pardon of Marc Rich was inexcusable, period, I don’t think that anyone left or right will argue that point, it was wrong. The pardon of President Clinton of his brother Roger showed questionable judgement on Bill Clinton’s part, but, put yourself in his shoes for one second- would you have not done the same thing in his place, if you had the chance? Haven’t you ever done something for a relative that you wouldn’t normally do for someone else? I agree that it does not make it right, but it was for a member of his family, not a member of his administration. I will not argue that Bill Clinton granted more pardons than any other recent presidents, and it is easy to make a case that he abused the privilege, but, please, anyone, explain to me how any of Clinton’s pardons or commutations served to protect his administration in any way, shape or form. You all want to believe that what President Bush did is not unusual, but the underlying factor that makes his action so reviled by us on the left is that his action has a couple of layered, interweaving cause and effects that give the commutation a tinge of irony: President Bush ran on the platform of returning “honor and dignity” to the White House, but his action was unprecedented in protecting a former administration official from any jail time, the talking point about how the commutation allows for the appeal process to continue where as a pardon would have short circuited the appeal is specious when you realize that the commutation also protects the individual from being called before Congress and given immunity and compelled to testify under oath about the underlying actions preceding the incident for which the person was convicted. The appearance of a self-serving commutation is what has the left upset. Rich, you call the Fitzgerald case against Libby a “witchhunt” where a man was convicted not because of his actual crimes, but because he was a convenient fall guy that the prosecutor could make a case with, and that there was no underlying real crime committed; it is my understanding that Patrick Fitzgerald prosecuted Scooter Libby he could not begin to investigate the underlying crime that you claim wasn’t committed because of all of the obfuscation that came into play during Libby’s testimony before the grand jury. Fitzgerald even made a statement about how the situation was like “an umpire not being able to call a game because so much sand was being kicked into his face”, so he felt that he had to prosecute the person who was giving him the most trouble, which you liken to someone not being able to remember how they answered a question after having answered the same question again and again. Do you think that maybe the main reason that Libby had such a hard time getting his story straight is that usually it is easier to remember the truth than it is to remember a web of outright lies intentional deceit. If Mr. Libby had simply told Mr. Fitzgerald the truth, he would have been able to keep his story straight and no charges of obstruction would have been brought. Rich, I am surprised that you have bought into the “there was no underlying crime committed” line of reasoning as you usually seem to consider facts and evidence before you comment; but your partisan support for all things Bush seems to have overridden your better judgement in this case.
    Celia: My disconnect with the reality of the Marc Rich case and how it is the exception to my claim of “no one being pardoned to avoid jail time” gives me a moment to pause here and apologize for my blanket statement. I was wrong about the Marc Rich case; he has served no prison time, and one can make a strong case that his ex-wife’s contributions to both Hillary’s Senate race and the Clinton Library fund could be viewed as a “buying” of the pardon given to Marc Rich.
    I will stand by my statement however, that none of Clinton’s pardons were given to any members of his administration in attempt to prevent investigations into the workings of the Clinton Administration, unlike the appearance of how the Libby commutation affects the ability of Congress to fully investigate how the Bush Administration has conducted itself for the last six years. And I repeat my challenge to anyone to find a news site or government site to show how any of the Clinton pardons were in any way similar to what Bush has done in the Libby case.

  82. Rich from Paso
    July 11, 2007 at 12:50 am

    Bob, it’s sad that you are so partisan that everything you see from the Bush Administration has to fit into the “evil manipulator” template. The fact is that I am done with Bush. I support his Iraq policy for no other reason than we broke it and we must fix it. But when he put forth that piece of shit immigration policy, that was it. Be thankful that we do have Democrats and Republicans htat actually take the time to read bills to see the myriad of pitfalls that bill contained. He is now a lame duck and 18 months is a long time to be a lame duck. I

    You scoffed at the “no underlying crime” comment that I have somehow bought the party line on that. Okay, Bob, here’s your chance: what was the purpose of the Fitzgerald investigation? Was it to determine if Scooter Libby is a liar or was it to find out who leaked Valerie Plame’s name to the press?

    Here are some quotes from Wikipedia on the Plame investigation:

    “On October 28, 2005, Fitzgerald brought an indictment for 5 counts of false statements, perjury, and obstruction of justice against Lewis “Scooter” Libby, U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney’s Chief of Staff. Libby resigned to prepare for his legal defense. Fitzgerald indicated that the leak investigation was not over, and it was widely believed that Karl Rove was the main target of the investigation, although Fitzgerald refused to comment on any specific person.”

    “On August 28, 2006, it was reported that Richard Armitage was the primary source of the Valerie Plame leak and that Fitzgerald knew this at the beginning of his investigation.[12] Investor’s Business Daily questioned Mr. Fitzgerald’s truthfulness in an op-ed piece one day later. Robert Novak’s testimony in the Lewis Libby perjury trial made it known that the two senior administration sources he cited in his article were Richard Armitage and Karl Rove. Journalist Michael Isikoff received confirmation from Rove’s lawyer and from lobbyist Richard Hohlt that Rove was also faxed an advance copy of the article revealing a CIA covert agent’s identity several days before it was published.”

    So where in there was Scooter Libby lying about leaking Plames’s name? It’s not there because he didn’t leak it. He was convicted of lying about his part of the investigation, but not the crime that was being investigated.

    There soon will be no Bush Administration officials convicted of a perjury because this conviction will be overturned by appeal.

  83. Rich from Paso
    July 11, 2007 at 1:34 am

    Actually, on the continuum between “Evil Genius” and “Lucky Incompetent”, I think Bush has steadily tracked toward the latter since the Iraq invasion.

  84. Celia
    July 11, 2007 at 5:09 pm

    Bob, apparently you cannot call someone names on this blog unless you are liberal. I typed a bad word and called you an idiot, so Dave apparently feels that I am not welcome on this blog. I was deleted. Only people with crazy ideas and liberal views are allowed to name call of use foul language.

  85. Ann Coulter
    July 12, 2007 at 12:13 am

    I cannot stand all this blog hatred against women from the liberals. I was led to believe it was only conservative men that hated women on blogs. How wrong I was to find out it was liberal men. I stand corrected. My heart goes out to you, Celia.

  86. Downtown Bob
    July 12, 2007 at 7:01 am

    Celia: I did respond to your comment that was apparently scrubbed; but I am curious- I told a very particular anonymouse that they should pull their head out of their ___, yet you were the one who was offended; did I miss something, was that you using the anonymouse option? If that was you, well, read my previous response. Clinton was wrong, period, to pardon Marc Rich. And yes, Mr. Rich’s pardon did pre-empt him from serving any jail time, I admitted that I was wrong. What else would you have me say?

  87. Rich from Paso
    July 12, 2007 at 8:03 am

    Bob, if Fitzphong was unable to prosecute anyone for leaking Valerie Plame’s name because of Libby’s obfiscations, then why isn’t he prosecuting Armitage now that Libby has been punished for those obfiscations? The guy “kicking the sand in the umpire’s face” has been convicted of that crime. Why has he stopped his investigation? Two reasons: one, he knows who leaked Plame’s name to Isakoff and Novak, that being Armitage, and two, leaking Plame’s name obviously wasn’t a criminal act or else Fitzphong would have prosecuted Armitage under the Espionage Act, the same act that Liar Joe Wilson said that Dick Cheney and/or Karl Rove should have been “frogmarched across the White House lawn” for violating, which they did not because Armitage was the leaker (whatever the hell “frogmarching” is).

    Fact is that this administration closer resembles the Keystone Kops than anything else with the way they bungle their way through things. Rove may be a genius for getting Bush elected but he has been very ineffective in keeping Bush on a message of any kind. It very well may be that day-to-day national security matters are being handled through Cheney’s office. I can’t wait for the Gulianni or Fred Thompson administrations that will soon follow in ’08.

    I love how you liberals elevate Bill Clinton to semi-deity status when you all wax whimsically at the wonderful past that was the ’90’s under Clinotn, but then instantaniously make him an everyday kind of guy when it comes to pardoning his brother and his 140 other BFF’s. To answer your question: no, I would not pardon my brother if he had already served his time. What would be the point? That is what is so unbelievable about Clinton pardoning his brother. But what about his brothers-in-law that got a total of $500,000 for all of the lobbying for pardons they were doing from inside the White House? If it was just the nice thing to do for his cokehead half-brother, why were the Rodham brothers paid anything to get the pardons for their “clients”? I would love to see just who is contributing to Hilliary’s campaign. I bet that list would be a real shocker.

    ps: Your maybes, inferences and supposition are really annoying. Can’t you make a point without trying to devine out of thin air some rationale why your theory is even remotely valid? Stop trying to crawl into people’s heads and just analyze the facts as we know them. You will never know what they think or were thinking so stop trying to make me believe you do. You will give your arguments more credibility that way.

  88. patty in nipomo
    July 13, 2007 at 4:41 am

    bob’s back to attacking women bloggers againdtkmobe

  89. Downtown Bob
    July 13, 2007 at 6:49 am

    Patty in Nipomo: Can I ask you what your post meant, without you believing that I am attacking you?
    I may be a little thick about what you are talking about, so please explain it to me in plain english so that I might understand. Thank you.

  90. Hoosier21
    July 13, 2007 at 3:09 pm

    Again, much ado about nothing. The left does not want to know the facts surrounding this case. As I stated earlier, Armitage was singled out as the one who outed Plame in the first week of the investigation. Can someone on the left tell me why the investigation went on? Can someone on the left tell me why he was not charged? Again, this was just a fishing expedition to see what they could catch in order to sully the Bush administration. Plame gave three different stories to the panel (meaning two had to be lies) and yet she was not charged with perjury. Can someone on the left tell me why? The investigation did not discover any crime. All they could come up with is charging someone who had a faulty memory with perjury. What a sham.
    Has anyone here looked at the bio of Libbey. This is a well education man who has spent his life serving the United States. He has even served as legal counsel for Congress (Democrats and Republicans). He has many admirable qualities and the one that got him into trouble was that he is loyal to a fault. It is unfortunate that he became the fall guy in order to denigrate the Bush administration Dave’s post stating he lied to cover up higher up’s is ludicrous. Again, Bush and Cheney had nothing to do with outing Plame. Dick Armitage did. And, Fitzgerald told him to keep quiet about it. A 30 month witch hunt. Wilson and Plame both lied to the panel, yet Scooter is convicted because of not giving precise information on a four year old phone conversation. This man does not belong in jail.

  91. Downtown Bob
    July 14, 2007 at 5:05 am

    hoosier: I was under the impression that the investigation continued because Fitzgerald continued to keep hitting the “stonewalls” that had been erected concerning who did or did not authorize the leaking of Valerie Plame’s name to the press. It was supposedly because Fitzgerald could not uncover the deeply buried facts concerning the case that he changed his focus on those who were purposely misleading him that he “went after” Scooter Libby. I do not profess to have the facts of the case, or the motivation behind the prosecutor’s actions, so I am sure you or Rich will correct me.
    As for Scooter Libby’s bio, please remember that he was the lawyer representing Marc Rich that the right likes to pile on Bill Clinton so much about. Stellar career indeed.

  92. patty in nipomo
    July 14, 2007 at 5:40 pm

    bob please back off with name calling and your putdowns of women.
    please don’t go to that level for it brings down the blog as a whole. thank you i’m done.tkmoye

  93. Downtown Bob
    July 15, 2007 at 6:06 am

    Patty: What? I asked for an example of where I have ever put down a woman on this blog anywhere, anytime; do you have any examples? If you are not completely done, that is. Thank you.

  94. Anonymous
    July 16, 2007 at 12:15 am

    Patty, it’s OK! Bob just doesn’t like women…
    We all just let him play in the corner by himself…

  95. Downtown Bob
    July 17, 2007 at 3:04 am

    Patty, Celia, anonymouse: Very nicely played, and a very typical attack by the right: make an accusation about someone doing something objectional, don’t offer any proof that the objectional action actually happened, ignore requests for proof, have someone else back up your assertion that the action had been done, continue to ignore calls for proof, and voila!, the accused is found guilty by all concerned on the right, no proof needed. Brilliant!

  96. Wilson
    July 17, 2007 at 4:43 am

    There goes Bob again. Get a life pal. Lay off the women tough guy.

  97. hates hypocracy
    July 18, 2007 at 12:40 am

    Downtown Bob said…
    “Patty, Celia, “anonymouse””
    Downer bob? Does your face hurt at the end of every day?
    It must since you talk out of both sides of your mouth!
    Look at you! Who is doing the name calling and name twisting that you complain about all the time??
    You Boob! It’s you! I hate two faced lefty libs! grrrrrrr

  98. Downtown Bob
    July 19, 2007 at 3:07 am

    hypocrisy hater: I read the anonymouse “label” here one time and decided to use it as well, since it suits those who are either too lazy to obtain their own “blogger i.d.” or they cannot figure out how to do so, so they post here anonymously, scampering back and forth as one anonymous or another, so the term “anonymouse” fits them to a “T”. Call it name calling, bashing or any other term you wish, but the anonymouse option is too easily abused. I repeat my challenge to anyone who claims that I have demeaned any females here: Quote the passage that I allegedly insulted a female because she is a female. Link to it if you know how, cut ‘n paste it if you can find the incident in question, or simply say which comment it was. I have not removed any of my comments from Dave’s blog, so please research the bogus claim and prove your accusation, or shut up.

  99. Anonymous
    July 20, 2007 at 2:02 pm

    downtrodden boob! You are hopeless!
    Post by your real name or shut up! There is nothing more anonymous than a spineless jerk that posts under a fake name and then uses the stupid logic against those that do the same.
    “downtrodden boob’ is the very same as “anonymous”…
    If you think I am wrong…then post by your real name or shut the hell up and get back to copy-n-paste your moveon crap!
    as for hating women…Boob! You live in a homesexual hang out! It’s noi secret that slo is a homotown!
    relax and embrace your lifestyle. It’s OK! Most homos are liberal.

  100. Hoosier21
    July 20, 2007 at 5:16 pm

    That’s the problem Bob, you were under an impression. Read Novak’s book. He plainly states that Armitage give up her name in a causal conversation. No outing, no authorization from above, just a causal conversation. Question remains, why did he continue to investigate? I personally would hate going on a witness stand and testify about a phone conversation years prior. I know I would flunk.
    I realize you don’t like us talking about the Clintons, but did you know that Starr had a 17 count indictment against Hillary? Prior to handing it down, they did a mock trial and determined that they could not convict her because all of the witnesses would plead the 5th, the Rose Law firm papers on Whitewater had been destroyed and Vince Fosters apparent suicide along with the Whitewater papers from his office turned up missing Yet, you would still vote for this person. The same was applicable to Bill, except they were looking at him through the Ricco act (using the governship as a basis for making money). Anyway, I digress.

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