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Three Brave Veterans

First off, great show today all around. Thanks to Cong. Lois Capps, Charlotte Alexander from United Way, Susan Amerikaner warning about the dangers of coming off your heart medication, and especially our three brave veterans from Iraq Veterans Against the War. wish they could have stayed an extra hour.

So let’s separate fact from fiction:

FACT: There were no presentations by the IVAW cancelled today. Not one. Not at Paso Robles High School. Not anywhere. Our visiting guests were welcomed everywhere they went.

FACT: Rich did not call in. He claims on another post that he didn’t even bother listening. Perhaps he’ll catch the podcast when it’s posted tomorrow.

FACT: Jerry did not call in and confront the veterans and call them the cowards he suggested on this blog that they were.

FACT: I instructed Tom to determine if callers agreed or disagreed and we tried to alternate back and forth between both sides. But after the first few calls, it was all in agreement. We have no control over who gets through to the show.

FACT: Yes, I did cut off and hang up on Jim from Atascadero who was insulting beyond words to suggest our guests were not qualified to speak because they were mere “high school graduates.” For the record, Jim called back to apologize. I do not cut you off for disagreeing with me. I will cut you off (or delete your comments here) if you are offensive and cross into personal attacks.

So what about these guys? Gee, where do I begin? With Jeff, who conducted 400 missions in Iraq? With Joe, who was explaining how at some KVRs, the taqxpayers are paying $35 per plate to feed a soldier due to corruption and fraud by contractors? By Tom who talked about how the locals didn’t trust U.S. soldiers and use the deflated soccer ball story to illustrate his points?

Look, I’m not saying these guys are giving us the gospel. It’s their perspective. Rich had a different experience. So have other soldiers.

But now check this out:

“They say they are not disloyal. They say they are not shirking their duty and that they do not oppose war. But over 1,000 active-duty and reserve members of the U.S. military are against the war in Iraq and have said so in an unusually public way — by petitioning Congress last month. Several of them appear to explain their actions in a Lara Logan report to be broadcast on 60 MINUTES Sunday Feb. 25 (7:00-8:00 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network.”

Bring the troops home. End the insanity. Let’s focus on Afghanistan and get that cesspool under control.

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  1. Air Tech from Paso
    February 23, 2007 at 6:29 am

    Dave, I thought you knew where to draw the line but apparently you don’t. Those soldiers are full of BUSH and USA hatred. They did not want to be over there in the first place. Now the big bad USA is over there contaminating everyone with radiation ??????

    Come on Dave. I know you are not a Bush Fan but you have stepped over the line this time. If you don’t have an apposing view on very soon, the old paso station will become the norm again around here.

  2. Marilyn
    February 23, 2007 at 6:56 am

    Dave,

    I was really impressed today with the degree of intelligence and wisdom of those vets. But, you could probably tell, they are very moral and courageous individuals.

    My son just got back from Fort Drum in New York. He and a couple of friends were visiting a friend of theirs who enlisted in the army less than a year ago; he was only 17 at the time. They were all shattered when he did that. He just turned 18. He wanted to be a Ranger, but, as happens to most, he will remain infantry.

    Those three young men (my son and his 2 friends) are trying to hold on to their buddy as long as they can. They talk to him on the phone every single day. They went through the recent blizzard in New York just to be with him for 4 days. Ever since his friend’s enlistment, my son sheds tears every now and then (and my son does not usually cry) and he is angry and worried that his closest friend will be going to Iraq in the next couple of months and there is the chance he may not see him again.

    I noticed a change in my son since he came back from Fort Drum 2 nights ago. He is more mature, more sober in demeanor, and more willing to get involved politically to stay informed about this war and about the Middle East. He has started to do it. We listened to the speaker on Lebanon last night and saw a movie about Iraq tonight with Cal Poly students. There is a change taking place and the kids are starting to want to get involved more.

    You could see the worry in my son’s eyes and his friends’ eyes. I think sometimes we fail to realize how deeply young people feel for their peers in Iraq and Afghanistan. They see themselves and their friends in the face of every soldier over there. They study every utterance, every smile, and every tear of a soldier in pictures and film. They watch them closely trying to hold on to the image just in case it gets lost forever, not wanting to let go.

    The only thing that will stop these kids in their tracks are the soldiers and the vets. They curse the war mongers; they ridicule the peace activists but they always, always, fall silent and listen when it is a soldier or vet talking.

    Our kids are worried for each other and their friends. They are worried about their futures. I can assure you that most of them think this administration is a criminal one.

    It is eerie watching the college kids these days. The reality is dawning upon them. I keep praying that they will take a much wiser path than we did.

    The different cultures are reaching out to each other. This world is becoming too small to ignore the similarities among all people.

  3. Bob from San Luis
    February 23, 2007 at 7:56 am

    air tech from paso: Those soldiers are full of BUSH and USA hatred. Excuse me? These are men WHO DID THEIR DUTY. They may not have agreed with the mission, but they did it anyway because they gave their word. They may not agree with President Bush, but they obeyed their orders because he is the Commander-in-Chief. Yes, the USA is contaminating everyone with radiation. Depleted Uranium is used to coat munnitions so that they penetrate the enemies armor or any other metal surface much easier, making the shells more effective. The problems with depleted uranium are many; the troops who handle the ordinance can be affected (google: gulf war syndrome), the exploded ordinance’s litter is very toxic and can not only give off radiation to those around it, but it also seeps into the ground water. It is the “gift” that keeps giving. And our military uses it. A lot. Another link on depleted uranium; please read if you still don’t believe how bad the stuff is.

  4. walter
    February 23, 2007 at 2:25 pm

    Has Lois Capps ever done anything?
    Did you know Nancy Pelosi had her grandkids up at the podium with her! The Muslim religon is just fantastic! We don’t need a wall, how could we get the billions of dollars in free medical care to all the hard working lawbreakers.
    Keep up the great work Lois, and don’t let he real world impact you
    one bit.

  5. Anonymous
    February 23, 2007 at 5:48 pm

    So typical of Dave. Everytime something is posted he doesn’t like he starts a new thread. So I have copied Jerry’s poem and pasted it here so no one will will miss it. Thanks Jerry, this sums it all up for many of us.

    a poem by Jerry:

    GRIEVING A FRIEND

    I once knew a man named Dave
    Not very often did he shave.
    On the airwaves was his new job
    To hometown radio we would turn our knob
    All seemed well and in it’s place
    He was off like runner at a very fast pace
    but he wasn’t a man with a happy face

    Then one day a friend came clean
    and warned him about his leftist lean
    He centered himself and he did find
    a world of full of the angry and kind
    He was the balance; he was the source
    of left and right in full discourse
    No one lost…we all would win
    It was like he was our next of kin.

    And then, oh then he slipped and fell
    A story that I can barely tell
    From his throne of success and grace
    into a pit so filled with disgrace
    He leaned back to the left so filled with hate
    it blinded his friends and sealed his fate
    He had lost it all for a cause not won
    all of a sudden he was just no fun

    He fought so hard to swing the scales
    but all the wind fell from his sails
    He had given his all for a losing cause
    Never really stopping to pause
    to hear the words of friends that care
    That had no agenda they begged him to share
    He fell into a trap so well planned and laid
    not able to recover from all he had said

    When it was over he laid in waste
    Those that had used him left with haste
    Committed to finding another to bring
    their hateful message of the left wing

    So around the corner and down the street
    that man you may still may meet
    His soul is gone his life sucked out
    saying over and over “was this all for naught”
    The world at his feet, a noose at his neck
    He sold his soul now lay waste, a wreck

    A tear did spill by those who cared
    A sad moment for those who dared
    to warn him of his terrible fate
    to be consumed by his own hate

  6. Anonymous
    February 23, 2007 at 6:14 pm

    FACT “Yes, I did cut off and hang up on Jim from Atascadero who was insulting beyond words to suggest our guests were not qualified to speak because they were mere “high school graduates.” For the record, Jim called back to apologize. I do not cut you off for disagreeing with me. I will cut you off (or delete your comments here) if you are offensive and cross into personal attacks.”

    If it’s a fact the three don’t have more than a high school diploma, what’s the outrageous personal attack?

  7. Anonymous
    February 23, 2007 at 7:18 pm

    Dear God (not allah!) Marilyn!
    Please don’t tell us you bred!
    Was in in vetro? Or did you like men in those days?

  8. democracy defender
    February 23, 2007 at 8:07 pm

    Great interview, Dave, with the IVAW group. The majority of the American people want to end Bush’s failed crusade in Iraq and these vets will help make it happen.

    By the way, I support your decision to cut off Jim from Atascadero when you did. I actually heard the program (it’s amazing how many people comment on what happens on the show without hearing it) and you gave Jim plenty of time to ramble on and on. When you finally asked him to make a point, he launched into a personal rant that needed to be cut off.

    Speaking of listening, I wonder if jerrydinaz has ever heard the show since he lives in Arizona. Just asking. Jerry?

    PS to anonymous: it’s “in vitro”, brainiac.

  9. Anonymous
    February 23, 2007 at 8:38 pm

    DAVE said “FACT: I instructed Tom to determine if callers agreed or disagreed and we tried to alternate back and forth between both sides. But after the first few calls, it was all in agreement. We have no control over who gets through to the show.”

    Maybe you’ve started to see how many local Conservatives are just tired of listening to the Dave’s Agenda Show. Thus perhaps besides not listening, they are not calling in any more.

    As I said before, and Jerry’s poem is trying to convey, (as well as a few others here) you are losing daily more of the audience you have so enjoyed.

  10. Marilyn
    February 23, 2007 at 10:47 pm

    To the anonymous before last. I surely “bred” and bred well, I might add.

    My 20-year old can spell and write better than you can, has more manners than you do, and probably even makes more money than you ever will and he is in college. He has good role models all around. He can also kick your ass and he does not hide behind a screen lobbing insults at people. He is good to his friends and kind to those he does not agree with.

    Oh, and he was baptized Catholic. Mull over that one, “ahbal.”

  11. vet yet
    February 24, 2007 at 7:02 am

    I DON’T SUPPORT THE TROOPS…..wow what blasphemy. This “I support the troops” collection of clever buzz words has been used to long to immobilize critical thinking about the real issues….We’ve been forced to climb over this obstacle phrase before were allowed to deal with the real issues. Were bogged down in an immoral war, Give folks someone to hate and fear and throw in a few lies and the majority will follow you anywhere….for awhile.

    Politicians from both parties use “It was bad information or if I knew then what I know now… lame excuses. I will never trust the judgement or vote for anyone who supported this war.

    If your going to enter a preemptive war with a country that is in no way a threat, shouldn’t you be damn sure your information is correct before you start killing children….or anyone?

    Now were suppose to trust this blundering administration to continue guiding us through this mess and possibly into another catastrophe?

    I appreciate the sane logic of these young vets. Bring their peers home now.

  12. Dave Congalton
    February 24, 2007 at 11:20 am

    Hey Anonymous —

    I just can’t win with you, can I. If I don’t post a new thread, I get grief from people. If I post a new thread, I get crap from people like you that I’m trying to change the subject.

    Actually the subject is the same (the three vets). I just wanted to start a new thread and give my reaction to their appearance.

    AND I DON’T HAVE TO RESPOND TO JERRY’S POSTS ON THIS BECAUSE HE CUT AND RUN ON THURSDAY AND DIDN’T CALL IN TO CONFRONT MY GUESTS DIRECTLY.

    No guts. No glory.

  13. Brett
    February 25, 2007 at 6:35 am

    Watch the trailer on recruiting.

    http://www.occupationdreamland.com/trailer.html

    What is your reaction Rich?.

  14. Rich from Paso
    February 25, 2007 at 6:52 am

    Yeah, it’s accurate. What do you want to know?

  15. Rich from Paso
    February 25, 2007 at 3:58 pm

    Oh, wait a tick… that trailer for Operation: Dreamland is about Fallujah, Iraq with the 82nd ABN, not recruiting. What does that trailer have to do with recruiting?

  16. Anonymous
    February 25, 2007 at 5:27 pm

    ACLU ex-president charged in child-porn case
    By Jerry Seper
    THE WASHINGTON TIMES
    February 24, 2007

    Federal authorities yesterday charged the former president of the American Civil Liberties Union of Virginia, who serves as a leader of youth sports organizations in the state, with receiving and possessing child pornography.

  17. brett
    February 25, 2007 at 7:22 pm

    Rich if you scroll down the page at the bottom there is a trailer on recruiting. Click one of the media types. I use Windows Media player.
    http://www.occupationdreamland.com/trailer.html

    Look at the last trailer.

  18. Rich from Paso
    February 25, 2007 at 8:32 pm

    Okay, I saw what you wanted me to see. Here’s my thoguths: Yes, that type of “reenlistment”, not recruiting, breif happens, jsut not like that. When I was at Fort Riley, I was charged with giving that same type of brief. I always stopped at “Do you have a plan for after you get out?” If a soldier said yes, then I asked to see it written down. When they gave me that written plan, I stopped the reenlistment push because this soldier was going to be taking care of his or herself when they got out. If it was live with momma and go to college or get a job, something. So long as they had a thought out plan, I let them along. Others that didn’t know what they wanted to do, when I asked them to write out their plan, many came back and ended up renlisting because they realized they were not ready to get out. They just reenlisted for two years and then got out. Others just got out. I told them “thank you for your honorable service and best of luck in your new life”and I meant it. Just as I told Jerry, honorable service is honorable service and they did something that 99.5% of all Americans didn’t have the werewithal to do and they should be proud. With me, there was very little arm twisting. there were a couple of just stellar, outstanding folks that I was looking out for the Army by trying to get them to saty, they were just that good. One did the other didn’t. The one that did is now becoming a Warrant Officer. The one that got out is now a manager of elevator repairmen in New Hampshire for Otis Elevators (true story). Of course, there were several soldiers that I told them they should go ahead and get out because it was obvious, due to many perfromance and discipline issues, that the Army and them were just not cut out for each other. They agreed and I thanked them for their service all the same.

    Now as for that video, you have to understand that that is the 82nd Airborn Division. there is a level of brainwashing that goes on to be in the 82d that you are the best of the best. When you don’t want to be part of theat best of the best, you are looked down on. Other units not in the 82nd but still on Fort Bragg are viewed as 2nd class soldiers. Truth is that the 82nd isn’t as good as they put themselves out to be. They take shortcuts and they assume risk with things like training and maintenance because their commanders have a “go, go, go” mentality trying to prove they are the best of the best, mostly to themselves. The 82nd is kind of an annomally in the Army. Most units and divisions kind of look down on the 82nd as a bunch of goofy, overachieving goons.

    That is what I think about that video.

  19. Brett
    February 25, 2007 at 10:04 pm

    Thanks Rich.

  20. brett
    February 26, 2007 at 5:08 am

    Great interview with Andrew Cockburn on C-Span

    http://www.q-and-a.org/Transcript/?ProgramID=1116

  21. Anonymous
    February 26, 2007 at 1:35 pm

    Andrew Cockburn is a socialist

  22. tom madsen
    February 27, 2007 at 5:33 am

    How did andrew get cockburn anyways?

  23. Bob from San Luis
    February 27, 2007 at 6:07 am

    Anonymous said…

    Andrew Cockburn is a socialist

    Your point?

    Read the interview.

  24. Anonymous
    February 27, 2007 at 6:53 pm

    bob living in san luis

    see Karl Marx, that’s the point

  25. Bob from San Luis
    February 27, 2007 at 9:22 pm

    Anonymous: The truth doesn’t know or follow ideology; something is true or it isn’t, how or where it comes from is irrelevant. I have not read Karl Marx or Lenin, but it is folly to suggest that every single thing they wrote was untrue or false simply because you don’t agree with their ideology. If you want to discount Andrew Cockburn’s writing and reporting because he was raised by an admitted socialist, you may miss some elemental truth or verifiable facts. “The human mind works best like a functioning parachute; fully open.” I am not suggesting that one has to believe everything you read, but don’t discount a reporter or writer simply because you don’t agree with their viewpoint. I can and do read writings from the right, looking for gems of truth or at least a means to understand the thinking of the right. I may be guilty of discounting right leaning writers occasionally, but I do strive to recognize when I am doing that so that I can choose how I am perceiving their view. I would like to suggest that you try it some time, you might even find yourself thinking more critically. Good day.

  26. Anonymous
    February 28, 2007 at 1:06 am

    bob living in san luis

    a writer with a socialist agenda does not make my must read list.
    sorry.

  27. Anonymous
    February 28, 2007 at 3:00 am

    Don’t get CrAzY annonymous….it’s not good for your Baby Boomer…heading towards 60 HEALTH!! RIGHT Dave??? Turn of KVEC….& Luckily…I am off to hear Hannity…whew….a breath of fresh air!!

  28. Bob from San Luis
    February 28, 2007 at 6:28 am

    anonymous: (which ever one you are) a writer with a socialist agenda does not make my must read list. I did not suggest that a socialist writer needs to be on your must read list; first off, how do you know that Andrew Cockburn is a socialist? If he is a socialist, why does that matter, if he is writing an article with factual evidence? Like I said before, keep your mind open, you may learn something. Maybe you are afraid?

  29. Anonymous
    February 28, 2007 at 4:48 pm

    bob living in san luis says:

    “Like I said before, keep your mind open, you may learn something. Maybe you are afraid?”

    By taking a stand againt socialism I’ve got a closed mind. Wow that’s awfully liberal of you.

  30. Bob from San Luis
    February 28, 2007 at 6:17 pm

    anonymous:
    In my opinion, you weren’t taking a stand against socialism, you were discounting anything the writer penned because he may be a socialist. You can keep you stand against socialism and still keep your mind open to the facts that are presented. I am firmly against fascism; that doesn’t mean that I can’t respect that certain things were done more efficiently, like Mussolini making sure the trains ran on time. But fascism is inherently evil in the way individual rights are trampled as a means of keeping order. Even a broken clock is right two times a day.

  31. golfingslo
    March 1, 2007 at 7:40 pm

    Dave, are these three vets “Brave” because of their opinion or because they are vets?

  32. NewsstandGreg
    March 4, 2007 at 12:12 am

    Did “JerryDinAZ” cut and run on his promise to call in???

    Dave is well aware of the “kill the messenger” types who won’t debate the point at hand.

    For JerryD and those “conservatives” who really want more of the same lame disaster in Iraq (and perhaps for Iran).

    “Are you for the War? Really?

    Because we’ve spent 400 billion dollars of BORROWED MONEY to fight this evil menace. So far, it hasn’t cost you a cent–though it has burdened your grandchildren. Don’t you think we should pay at least a little something for this ‘war to save civilization’– right now?

    Aren’t you willing to make a small sacrifice for this noble cause in the form of a tax increase to pay for it?”

    Jerry (and others) say they want “victory.” In fact, Bill O’Reilly has taken to asking progressives point blank whether they want “victory.” Some think that question is rude. I don’t.

    Here’s the answer. “Why Bill, I want victory just as much as you do. How about it, Bill? Do you want victory bad enough to pay for it?” When he balks–and he will–“like I said, I want victory as much as you do.”

    It’s real simple. Real “wartime” is a time of sacrifice–for everybody. In World War II, Americans paid a high marginal tax rate of 94%. You couldn’t buy a new car, because there weren’t any new cars. Detroit assembly lines were diverted to making tanks, jeeps and B-17’s.

    Gasoline, sugar, and other commodities were rationed. There were scrap metal and rubber drives. Oh, and we financed our own war through the endless campaign to “buy bonds.”

    So far, no American who is not in uniform (with the exception of parents and family of the wounded and dead) has sacrificed a goddamn thing. These conservatives who tell us about the Muslim boogieman who wants a “global Islamic empire” haven’t sacrificed a goddamn thing.

    More to the point, they will refuse if you put the question to them, straight up. Then everyone will see the scam for what it is.

    And make no mistake, Americans will not be clamoring to make any sacrifices for the war in Iraq, or any other corporate imperialist adventure. That is the ultimate weakness of corporate imperialism. It requires the support of American taxpayers, only they don’t really have much stomach for paying taxes to finance Abu Ghraib or our own Gulag at Gitmo.

    So the next time you are confronted with–or even see–some conservative braying about “victory,” and scaremongering about the Islamic devils, here’s what you do. Counterattack.

    “Really? Are you willing to pay for this ‘clash of civilizations?’ No? Then the shut the frack up.”

    And he will. Because what else can he say? He can’t support a “tax increase”–ever, under any circumstances. Tax increases are conservative sacrilege. So he can’t support paying for the war, even it really is to “save western civilization.”

    That’s contradiction number one. As for ordinary Americans, they damn sure don’t want to pay more taxes for an oil war that will primarily benefit American oil companies. They also aren’t much interested in subsidizing torture. That’s contradiction number two.

    Put the two together, and you’ve a one, two punch that will put those neocon bastards right on the canvas. Notice the facts. They are not simply presented. They are woven into the presentation of the contradiction. It is the contradiction, and not the mere facts, that destroys.”

    That’s my two cents. Have a pleasant day. –Greg

    (excerpted from a post on dailykos.com)

  33. steve
    March 5, 2007 at 5:32 pm

    newsstandlib says,

    “So far, no American who is not in uniform (with the exception of parents and family of the wounded and dead) has sacrificed a goddamn thing. These conservatives who tell us about the Muslim boogieman who wants a “global Islamic empire” haven’t sacrificed a goddamn thing.”
    What about the 3000 people sacrificed on 9/11 you academic fool. More muslim boogieman stuff I guess.

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