Home > Uncategorized > The People Say "No" to More U.S. Troops

The People Say "No" to More U.S. Troops

OK, this is the dominant national issue as we await to hear from president Bush Wednesday night, making his case to escalate the war in Iraq. He speaks at 6 p.m. and we’ll carry the speech live. Also, Thursday at 5:30, Dawn Legg and Chris Ahrend will respond to the speech.

Meanwhile, the U.S. public is already speaking up — AND AGAINST Bush. They want the insanity to stop. Reports are that there are at least ten Repulbican senators also against the escalation.

WASHINGTON — President Bush will outline his “new way forward” in Iraq on Wednesday to a nation that overwhelmingly opposes sending more U.S. troops and is increasingly skeptical that the war can be won.
A USA TODAY/Gallup Poll taken Friday through Sunday shows a daunting sales job ahead for the White House, which is considering a plan to deploy up to 20,000 additional U.S. troops to Iraq.

Those surveyed oppose the idea of increased troop levels by 61%-36%. Approval of the job Bush is doing in Iraq has sunk to 26%, a record low.

Views of the war will be difficult to change with rhetoric alone, says Steven Kull, director of the Program on International Policy Attitudes at the University of Maryland. And if the public expresses strong opposition to Bush’s plan, he says, Congress “may feel emboldened to exert what control they have to stop or at least make it more difficult for the president to move forward.”

Among key findings:

•Nearly half of those surveyed say the United States can’t achieve its goals in Iraq regardless of how many troops it sends. One in four say U.S. goals can be achieved only with an increase in troop numbers.

•Eight in 10 say the war has gone worse than the Bush administration expected. Of those people, 53% say Bush deserves “a great deal” of blame; 41% place a great deal of blame on Iraqi political leaders.

•By 72%-25%, Americans say Bush doesn’t have a clear plan for handling the situation in Iraq. Congressional Democrats fare only a little better: 66%-25%.

Even so, Democrats take control of Congress amid a wave of good feeling. By 2-to-1, Americans say they want congressional Democrats, not Bush, to have more influence over the direction of the nation.

The president’s overall job approval rating is 37%, up 2 percentage points from mid-December.

While Bush has often said his war strategy won’t be based on polls, three of four Americans say the government’s decisions on Iraq ought to be influenced at least a moderate amount by what the public wants.

Views on increased troop levels differ sharply by party. Even among Republicans, though, 30% oppose the idea; 67% support it. Independents are against it by nearly 2-to-1. Democrats oppose it, 85%-12%.

And there is a yawning gender gap: 69% of women oppose an increase, compared with 52% of men.

****

So what do you think? Let’s hash it out!

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  1. golfingslo
    January 10, 2007 at 6:13 am

    With Iraq as one part of GWOT (Global War on Terrorism), do people think we should be out of Afghanistan, Ethiopia, Kenya and Somalia to name a few spots. Remember, the Ethiopian and Kenyan governments have asked us there as well as the interim Somalia government. The media keeps focusing on Iraq and that is all people think about, unless you are from a family that has sons and daughters overseas in a non-Iraq conflict zone. Do we bring our Navy Seals home from Kenya, who are training Kenyan forces at the Kenyans request? People forget how many Kenyans died at the hands of Muslim terrorist back in 1998. So what I am saying is there is more to GWOT than Iraq. And if you do not believe there is a GWOT, start looking around the world at other conflicts besides Iraq.

  2. Atascadero Chuck
    January 10, 2007 at 6:25 am

    Hey Golfingslo,

    The problem is that we’re bogged down in Iraq; all of our resources are tied up and we can’t effectively launch a GWOT because of the drain of this war. I support the need to combat terror — I just don’t think we’re doing it in Iraq.

    The neo-cons hijacked this country after 9-11 and Bush fell for it. Now even the neo-cons are badmouthing Bush.

  3. marilyn farhat
    January 10, 2007 at 8:29 am

    There is a strong possibility that this GWOT is a never-ending one. We have to remember that Afghanistan and Iraq were the gateway into more global intervention to promote the ideology of the Neo Cons. An exit strategy or nation building were never really part of the war as evident by the following facts:

    1- Afghanistan is still in the stone age despite the monies promised. Kabul has received some of the aid but the basic infrastructure remains in ruins and the tribal areas have not changed a bit. I think the taxpayers of this country should demand their money back from all the “Middle East experts” who sent us into this mess in the first place. They are a bunch of “momma’s boys” who were yanked from their mother’s bosom too early so they have to suck the life dry out of those they deem beneath them. The basic premise of their morality is “I can, therefore, I will.”

    2- The drug trade is on the rise again with a rise in the degree of lawlessness and warlord hegemony. We have many small groups of Special Forces in there now, but what kind of progress they are making, we do not really know.

    3- When we entered Iraq, we really had no intention of leaving. The fact that the half a million Iraqi soldiers were given a pink slip is an indication that there was not planning and the intent was and is to stay. We may add or remove soldiers from Iraq, but the fact remains that we are staying indefinitely.

    4- The way the Iraq war was conducted on the ground and on a psychological level with the Iraqi people and the illegally held “suspects” at Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib and other prisons, is an indication that the psychological warfare was deliberately introduced at an early stage to weaken the resolve of the Iraqi people. One aspect of that was the looting of the ancient treasures of the Middle Eastern world, an act that was in the planning by the world’s most powerful art dealers before the invasion of Iraq was afoot.

    5- Our next potential targets are Iran and Syria and any other country that contains a viable Muslim leadership. What is happening in Lebanon and the Occupied Territories attest to that fact. The US and Israel want a world free from any traces of Muslim influence (some may argue that is a good thing). What is neglected is the fact that Israel is the ONLY nuclear power in the region at this time. They have a history of vicious aerial bombardments and secret assassinations across the world. If the American people are to be afraid of anyone, they should be afraid of the colonial state of Israel that continues to build illegal settlements on Arab lands, settlements that the rightful Arab owners are not allowed to even drive through under the penalty of death. Talk about why the Arabs are “angry!”

    The most obscene thing I have witnessed is when the abuser calls out that he is being victimized while he is slitting the throat of his victim. That is what Israel is doing to its neighbors. The “most moral army” in the world has no difficulty using nerve gas on the people whose lands they are stealing and over whom they hold the power of life and death. Their tolerance to their own rates of attrition is extremely low because they “value human life” but they do not mind incinerating the children of their neighbors in large numbers. We do not want to be fighting a proxy war of behalf of Israel. We really had better be careful how we tread and how we treat people and nations. Our victims may not be sophisticated and powerful like we are, but they are far from stupid.

    This whole intervention in the Middle East is so obscene. We should quit complaining about how victimized we are while we continue to slaughter people in other parts of the world.

    The irony is that the Neo Cons are so shallow in their understanding of human nature and the evolution of resistance movements. Their black and white thinking and their “might is right” approach to conflict resolution has only added to the alienation. It is not over with the wars in the Middle East. We need to start listening to the “chatter” that is coming from that region instead of constantly listening to our rulers. It is never wise to trust one’s rulers completely. The people of the Middle East neither trust us nor their rulers. We should do the same thing because ultimately, it is those in power against everyone else.

    We are the only nation that lives under the illusion that somehow we have the best system in the world. What many fail to realize is that it is a system that, under the law, affords equality and justice, but in practice, the same rulers who make those laws also dictate the loopholes with which they can be broken, here and abroad.

    Our children will be inheriting a mess of the world. Our demise as a nation will not be at the hands of “terrorists.” Reality has shown that we have contributed to the demise of so many nations in the past few decades that we really have no substance to the argument for the case against terrorism. Our demise will come if we continue to spread ourselves thin locally and globally.

    The US, Israel, Iran, Iraq, and most of the nations in the Middle East and other areas of the world have committed terrorist acts. State terrorism by our country is minimized if the “cause” is justifiable.

    Many look at Somalia right now and see a good thing. Maybe it is a good thing for the people benefiting from the war, but where do the Somali people fit in all this, or are we now supporting the old warlords again? We have such a racist view of the world. We minimize the suffering of people to justify the strategy we endorse.

    And another chapter in this fiasco unfolds in one more place. Our Navy Seals are playing the deadly games they were trained to play. They may assassinate Nasrallah or an Al-Qa’ida leader here and there, but what their puppeteers seem to deliberately ignore is that today it is Islamic extremism. Ten years from now, it may be something completely different. The current people we are targeting for elimination and bombings across the Middle East under the Black Ops program will one day be dead, with or without our help. Are we going to continue to fight the “War on Terrorism” indefinitely? When do we step back and ask if our “strategy” has been the right one all these years? Wasn’t it some dead Chinese military guy who said: “Keep your friends close to you, but keep your enemies closer?” Why is it that we never listen to wise people? Instead, we have to pay millions of dollars to a gang of political morons running around the country from one think tank to the next claiming “Middle East expert,” AKA “God and you should worship ME,” and, therefore, I hold power of life and death over those rag heads and over those dumb military bastards we send to the Middle East to die. What was it that Henry Kissinger said in one of his books: “Military men are just dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns.”

    We cannot wage a war on a concept. It is like the “War on Drugs.” We are fighting a symbol that we can easily manipulate to suit our agenda for the day. Meanwhile, the Seals continue to die in their secret missions without anyone knowing about it and meanwhile we continue to finance oppressive and tyrannical regimes across the world.

    The US is the biggest enabler of the abuse of women around the world by our blatant support for those states that encourage it when they are our friends. We seem to forget that the women of Iraq have suffered tremendously since the war. Whatever gains they made during the reign of Saddam is down the sewer now.

    But I guess that is ok, because Arab women don’t count unless we want to use their subjugation for political motives when we want to invade their country.

    War is the worst thing that can happen to women and children and all those poor sods in the SF community think they are doing something noble when in fact they are enabling the system that inflates them so much to continue with the oppression of Muslim women.

    Time to think about it from that perspective.

  4. golfingslo
    January 10, 2007 at 5:31 pm

    Afganistan, Iraq or 9/11 were the catalyst or gateway for the neo-cons to take over. The neo-cons are hadling it a different way that how it was handled in the past. GWOT has been going on long before Afganistan, Iraq or 9/11. During the 90’s we were trying a different approach by turning the other check and telling ourselfs that the world loves us. We were in a touchy feely state of “I feel your pain” and not understanding the true hatted some people have for our way of life and the only good American is a dead American.

  5. Atascadero Chuck
    January 10, 2007 at 6:27 pm

    You’re still confusing GWOT with whatever is happening in Iraq. For example, I thinkit’s great that we got those S.O.B.s in Somalia. That’s frigging fantastic. I also support Afghanistan 100%. I would love to see our tax dollars go more for counter intelligence and counter terrorism efforts. Just saw “Munich” and those Massad guys know how to respond to terrorist thugs.

    But look at Iraq. We’re bringing democracy????? Just flushing $$$$ down the toilet, dividing the country. Even the Republicans are distancing themselves from Bush.

    Iraq is not GWOT. It’s a costly detour.

    Let’s get back on track.

    Vote Democrat!

  6. Marilyn
    January 10, 2007 at 8:18 pm

    Afghanistan and Iraq are both part of the Neo Con Agenda. We got rid of the Taliban and the Ba’athists, but we did not address the causes of “terrorism” because neither was the cause. We went there for strategic hegemony and control of the Middle East. The intent was to FRAGMENT THE REGION AND IT IS IN PROCESS.

    Democrat or Republican, both support the brutality in the Middle East, the difference is the Democrats do not want our soldiers killed. The slaughter in the Middle East is acceptable as long as it is beneficial to “us” and our way of life.

    It is funny how the supposed mastermind of 9-11 is nowhere to be found. Could it be that his family is chums with our ruling family?

    Meanwhile, the children and women of the Middle East continue to die because we think we know it all.

    Marilyn Farhat.

  7. Marilyn
    January 10, 2007 at 8:39 pm

    Chuck,

    I would hesitate to admire the MOSSAD. They are nothing more than a bunch of assassins roaming around the globe because they think they have the power of life and death over anyone. I saw Munich a few years ago. It is not so romantic in real life. I lived in a city where MOSSAD used to pay us “visits” on a regular basis. They murder people and their wives in their beds with their children looking on. Do we really wonder what happens to those children after their parents are killed in such a fashion? Maybe we should start thinking about it from that perspective for a change.

    They have botched so many “missions” and killed the “wrong target.” The degree of guilt of their targets is also questionable on most occasions. I mean what kind of a crime would warrant death before it was even committed. But I guess if that approach is acceptable, we should not be surprised about the extremism that is gripping some parts of the Middle East.

    It should not be up to the secret service of one country to dictate power of life and death all over the globe. It is such behavior that generates resentment in the Middle East and elsewhere and that encourages people to blow themselves up. I am still amazed that we continue to think in the “we are better than them” mentality and wonder why things are not getting better, but worse? Should we change strategy?

    International law is the way to go. We do not live in the Wild West and we should no be trekking around the globe on a lynching spree. It is wrong, immoral, and criminal and, in the long run, it will come back to bite us in the ass (oh, it has, hasn’t it?).

    Look for more war shows in the region, courtesy of: who’s running the show now?

    Marilyn Farhat.

  8. Rich from Paso
    January 10, 2007 at 9:04 pm

    Marilyn: While your reasoning sounds valid, it is rife with your biases and many logical falicies. To name them:

    Your point number one: Remember that the stone age was about 20,000 years ago and we have been in Afghanistan for 5 years. To be fair, the United States has had more success in modernizing Afghanistan than did Alexander the Great, Great Britain or the Soviet Union combined.

    Point 2: Were it left up to me, I would take a flamethrower to every poppy field in Afghanistan. But I’m sure that you and the other Muslims would be all pissed off that we would be depriving the Afghanis of their livelihood or driving them into the arms of Al Qaeda, both of which is probably true. Which leads me to my point here: which is more important? Is it fighting terrorism or destroying the drug trade? I think you do both by destroying the poppies.

    Point three: You might have missed it back in 2005 when I first was on Dave’s show. The last thing he asked was “when are the troops coming home?” My answer was: we have troops in Korea 55 years after the Korean War and troops in Germany 62 years after WWII, so it will be a long time. Not satisfied, he wanted to pin me down to a set number of years. I told him a minimum of 5 years and probably at most 10 years. So yeah, we probably won’t be done with Iraq for at least 5 to 10 years.

    – “We cannot wage a war on a concept.” Wrong-o. We have been at war with poverty in this nation since 1964 and we are still losing. We have been “bogged down” with the War on Poverty that has wasted $9 Trillion (that trillion with a T) over the last 43 years and NO ONE has batted an eye at that. So what you are really saying is that you can’t go to war on a concept unless it is one that Liberals support, then you can fight that never ending war that you talked about earlier.

    -“If the American people are to be afraid of anyone, they should be afraid of the colonial state of Israel that continues to build illegal settlements on Arab lands, settlements that the rightful Arab owners are not allowed to even drive through under the penalty of death.”

    While your Hezbollah rhetoric sounds convincing, it is factually flawed. You have stated before that Arabs are a tribal people and the states that exist now are a product of European colonialism. Fact is that the Palestinians are really just another Arab tribe that would be able to live anywhere in the Middle East. But since now that the colonial bogus states exist, no one wants the palestinians. Why? The Palestinians are pawns of the other Arab states against Israel. They are an easily motivated army of Arabs willing to take the fight to the Israelis on a moments notice. If the other Arab states are so concerned about the plight of the Palestinian, why has there been zero attempts at assimilation by Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia or any other Arab state in the region? Why has the Arab states forced Palestinians to live in “refugee camps” waiting for the day that either Israel ceases to exist or when Israel grants the right of return to all of those Palestinians? The other Arab states need a constantly pissed off group of people to keep the pressure on Israel. You complain about the abuse of women and children under the GWOT yet you totally give the arab states a pass on the ahortant conditions that Palestinian women and children have lived under going on two generations. Where is your since of justice that Saddam and his terrorist sons are no longer alive to rape 12 year old girls for weeks on end and for the murders of school children for not showing “proper respect” to Saddam when he was in a parade? These are true stories told to me by Iraqis. Where is your outrage that Palestinian children are being indoctrinated to be suicide bombers through children’s cartoons? Your selective outrage and your muslim myopia undermines your credibility on the subject.

    -“War is the worst thing that can happen to women and children and all those poor sods in the SF community think they are doing something noble when in fact they are enabling the system that inflates them so much to continue with the oppression of Muslim women.”

    Marilyn, those “poor sods”, as you refered to them, enjoy the work they do because they are volunteers. They chose this line of work. Don’t hold any pity for a member of any of the armed services because they are in the service. They elected to be in the military, they knew what the risks and the rewards were, they agreed to be deployed to fight in Iraq by signing the dotted line. Anyone that says that they didn’t know they “volunteered” for duty in Iraq is either an idiot, a coward or a liar or any combination of the three. As for the oppression of Muslim women, I said it once and I will say it again: I hold no pity for Muslim women because Muslim women have chosen to live in the patriarchal societies they live in. American women shook off most of the bonds of sufferage in 1920. True, you all are still campaigning hard for more rights and equal treatment and I say good on you. But to through “oppression of Muslim women” as some sort of indictment against the GWOT is pure sophistry. If Muslim women wanted to be free of the Burhka and the head wrap and the isolations that Muslim men place their women under, then they would take to the street in protest like American women did 87 years ago!! Are you saying that Muslim women are complicitous in their own subjugation? Are you saying that Muslim men would kill their women if they spoke out? I know for fact that Muslim women have been stoned to death for not covering up, for having affairs, and for many other instances that Americans would consider trivial. If you are married, was it an arranged marriage like most Muslim women? If you are not, then you are a hypocrite for taking advantage of the freedom of America while denouncing the provider of that freedom. The subjugation of Muslim women did not begin with the GWOT or the invasion of Iraq. It has been a staple of Muslim women’s lives for the past 700 years. To badmouth the United States for what it has done in the last… oh, let’s say 30 years, is to deny your own religion’s culpability in the oppression going on and it ignores your own history as a people.

    Bottom line is this: It may be a never ending war so long as Muslim nations continue to train their children to die, see only conspiracy and victimization at the hands of the world powers, has elements that are seeking a world-wide caliphate in the name of Allah and will stop at nothing to acheive that goal, continue to blame others for recent events while ignoring 700 years of like behavior and events, and so long as the countries of the West continues to fund all of the above with trillions of petro-dollars.

    My final point is this: you and the rest of the liberal anti-Iraq War, Anti-Bush, and anti-American crowd needs to understand that, in all practical reality, life is a series of mutually exclusive choices. You CANNOT, for instance, cut and run from Iraq AND keep Iraq stable and out of the hands of either al Qaeda or Iran; it’s just not possible. You CANNOT conduct a war AND give your enemy all of the same rights that every American enjoys; you will lose. You CANNOT tell Bush that he needs a “new course for Iraq” and then tell him that a surge of troops is off the table (keep in mind that every liberal, Dave included, said that we went to Iraq without enough troops; why is increasing the troop level now wrong when it would have been right in 2003?). I am left to believe that the childhood primer of “you can’t have your cake and eat it, too” is lost on liberals.

  9. golfingslo
    January 10, 2007 at 9:12 pm

    Marilyn, you just made one of my points…we think we know it all, we do not. We have had our head in the sand too long and just belive what is being said that day good or bad about the “present administration”. This has been going on for more than 70 years and it wasn’t until the “FIRST’ Trade Center bombing that bought it to our country.

    And Chuck, Iraq is part of GWOT, it has nothing to do with democracy and if you believe it does, they have hooked you into the sound bite of the day.

  10. JerryDinAZ
    January 10, 2007 at 9:36 pm

    MARILYN IS TRYING WAY TOO HARD HERE…I AM BEGINNING TO WONDER WHAT HER REAL AGENDA IS. I SEE ALL THE BLOGS SHE IS ON AND SHE IS NOT VERY COMPLIMENTARY OF SAN LUIS OBISPO COUNTY…SO I WONDER WHY SHE STAYS? WAS SHE ASSIGNED HERE? AND BY WHOM AND FOR WHAT PURPOSE?

    HER THOUGHTS ARE NOT WELL WEAVED TOGETHER. LOTS OF DOUBLE TALK. BUT IT ALL AIMS AT ONE THING. THE USA SHOULD GET MILITARILY OUT OF THE MIDDLE EAST.

    I FIND THAT DISTURBING SINCE IT WAS AMERICA THAT LIBERATED MILLIONS OF WOMEN AND CHILDREN IN IRAQ, GAVE THEM A “VOTE IN GOVERNMENT” AND ARE CONTINUING TO REBUILD THE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT IS DESTROYED DAILY BY THE INSURGENTS IN HER OWN RELIGION.

    COME CLEAN MARILYN. WHAT IS YOUR AGENDA? WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH? I HAVE VISITED EVERY SITE ON THE NET THAT MENTIONS YOUR NAME. YOU HAVE QUITE A STRING OF CONSISTENT MESSAGES OUT THERE, ALL THE WHILE EMPLOYED BY THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA AND STILL A MEMBER OF THE MOST HATEFUL AND DESTRUCTIVE TERRORIST “RELIGION” IN THE WORLD.

    WE WILL NOT LEAVE THE MIDDLE EAST. WE WILL NOT ABANDON OUR ISRAELI FRIENDS. WE WILL NOT GIVE UP ON PEACE, FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY FOR ALL THAT WANT IT. WE WILL PROTECT OUT NATION AT ANY COST OR TIMEFRAME.

    THE TERRORISTS WANT YOU WEAK MINDED. THEY WANT YOU GUTLESS. THEY WANT US OUT OF IRAQ BECAUSE OF THEIR PLANS TO BUILD THEIR CENTRAL WORLD DOMINATING GOVERNMENT THERE.

    YOU CAN BEAT YOU OLD “HATE BUSH” DRUM ALL YOU WANT. AMERICANS WANT FREEDOM AND PEACE FOR ALL THE WORLD TO ENJOY. WE WILL REGROUP AND WE ADJUST OUR STRATEGY AND WE WILL WIN IN IRAQ…THEN IRAN…THEN WHEREVER THE ISLAMO-FACISTS RUN NEXT. COUNT ON IT!

    WE LEARNED FROM 9-11 WHAT YOUR GOALS ARE AND WE AREN’T BUYING IT.

    GOGGLE MARILYN’S NAME…GO SEE FOR YOURSELF. AND YOU WILL SEE WHY SHE PONTIFICATES ON THIS BLOG AND ELSEWHERE.

    IT SEEMS SOMEBODY HAS BEEN HAD…BUT NOT US!

  11. David Abdul
    January 10, 2007 at 10:13 pm

    Marilyn

    Sounds like its a crime to be a non white blogger. Hang in there and keep posting the truth, it hurts them to the bone. Why does Bush want to kill more innocents when he should just get out?

  12. Rich from Paso
    January 10, 2007 at 10:55 pm

    Why do Iraqi muslims want to continue fighting the U.S. and Iraqi forces when, if they quit fighting, the United States would leave?

  13. Anonymous
    January 11, 2007 at 12:53 am

    A few wording changes and this could have come straight out the mouth of Adolf Hitler.

    WE WILL REGROUP AND WE ADJUST OUR STRATEGY AND WE WILL WIN IN IRAQ…THEN IRAN…THEN WHEREVER THE ISLAMO-FACISTS RUN NEXT. COUNT ON IT!

  14. Anonymous
    January 11, 2007 at 12:57 am

    Is it just me, or does Jerry just HATE everything and everyone who doesn’t fit his notion of what is suppose to be?.

  15. Anonymous
    January 11, 2007 at 1:41 am

    I find it disturbingly suspicious that right after jerrydinaz prompted us to do our own research on marilyn farhat by googleing her name, she changed her posting name to her first name only and then started her own blog.
    I may not agree with everything he says but i read his posts completely and I am glad he is here.
    Marilyn, what say you?

  16. Brett
    January 11, 2007 at 1:51 am

    “I find it disturbingly suspicious that right after jerrydinaz prompted us to do our own research on marilyn farhat by googleing her name, she changed her posting name to her first name only and then started her own blog.”

    Uh, if you sign up you automatically are given a blog site. So if I sign in my “blog site” comes up. It’s a pain though so I just use other.

  17. jose in santa maria
    January 11, 2007 at 3:25 am

    bush is done

  18. Anonymous
    January 11, 2007 at 4:52 am

    I agree with Jose.

    21,500 more troops won’t change a thing.

    But I dooubt the Democrats in Congress will have the guts to stand up and challenge Bushhead.

    What an idiot!!!!!!!!!!

  19. Anonymous
    January 11, 2007 at 5:14 am

    He is better than a President with PMS every 28 days! or hot flashes!
    or a cocaine user named b. hussein obama…
    Stick with Bush! The options are far worse. plus, we need to keep Bubba away from the white house at any cost to protect out young daughters!

  20. Dave Congalton
    January 11, 2007 at 5:40 am

    This last Anonymous posting strikes me as juvenile, insensitive and totally incorrect. I will waste ten minutes of my life that I’ll never get back, trying to respond:

    First, ignore any chance a woman might have as a leader because of hot flashes and PMS? That’s so insulting as to not even warrant a response, except to say George W. Bush could use a hot flash right now!

    The cocaine use name B. Hussein Obama. Isn’t that nice how Anonymous calls attention to the middle name, like it matters? Like everyone named Jack is a serial killer on the loose because of Jack the Ripper.

    Obama experimented with cocaine as a young man and rejected it. By contrast, G.W. Bush WILL NOT EVEN DISCUSS ANY ASPECT OF HIS LIFE FROM 1970 TO 1975 BECAUSE HE DOESN’T WANT TO ADDRESS THE COCAINE ISSUE. So who is the more honorable person here, Mr. Anonymous?

    We need to keep Bubba away to protect our young daughters. Cute. Funny. But Bubba didn’t kill 3000 AMERICAN SOLDIERS. Actually we need to keep Bush out of the White house to protect our daughters — and sons!

    There. I only wasted five minutes of my life that i’ll never get back.

  21. golfingslo
    January 11, 2007 at 5:41 am

    Based on the comments posted by everyone, you are all proving my point. The media and the “sound bite” of the day have you all hooked. Iraq is not the main thing, but it sure makes for great rethoric. Iraq is but one tree in the forest. You just can’t see it.

  22. Anonymous
    January 11, 2007 at 5:52 am

    Iraq is the main thing, thanks to Bush. That’s where we have our troops. That’s where we spending the $$$$. We can’t really mount much of a fight anywhere else until we redeploy and rethink our GWOT.

    Step #1 is to listen to the military.

  23. Anonymous
    January 11, 2007 at 5:57 am

    Dave says…”There. I only wasted five minutes of my life that i’ll never get back.” Then why do you want others to waste theirs???

  24. From Salon.com analysis
    January 11, 2007 at 8:57 am

    The president conceded that a similar effort to lock down Baghdad failed as recently as last summer, when the military dispatched an additional 12,000 U.S. troops to Baghdad in Operation Together Forward, a much-touted adventure to work hand-in-hand with Iraqi units to crack down on violence in the capital. The Iraqis promised six battalions, but only two showed up. In the end, the plan seemed to backfire. In October, Army Maj. Gen. William B. Caldwell IV announced that the operation “has not met our overall expectations,” noting a 43 percent increase in attacks on U.S. and Iraqi forces since the middle of the summer.

    “There were not enough Iraqi and American troops to secure neighborhoods that had been cleared of terrorists and insurgents,” Bush said about previous efforts to clear and hold Baghdad. And this time, he added, the Iraqis will show up and take the lead.

    But some military experts said 20,000 troops might not be enough to clean up Baghdad at this late date. And the White House and the Pentagon seem to agree that after nearly four years of grinding war, 20,000 extra troops is all the military can muster. Once again, Bush’s attempt to stabilize Iraq might be too little, far too late.

  25. Marilyn
    January 11, 2007 at 9:06 am

    Jerry,

    How sweet of you, you little devil to “prompt” all these good folks to investigate me. I am flattered that you would do that. Did you call the FBI yet? I’ll give you a quarter. You guys really have no clue, do you? Oooooh, I work for THE STATE. Does that mean I cannot exercise my rights as a citizen on my own time. You got me, right!

    Anonymnous:

    Ummmm, it is still my name. My name is Marilyn. Marilyn is my name. Yo soy Marilyn. Je m’appelle Marilyn. Ismi Marilyn. If I knew Chinese, I would say it in Chinese. I still sign my posts with my full name. What, is it a conspiracy that I choose my first name now to introduce myself. That is how I am signed up from now on as a blogger. Chew THAT one. My friends call me Marilyn. My mom calls me Marilyn. At least I use my full name, MR/MS. ANONYMOUS.

    Why don’t all the people out there give their REAL names so we can google them too. I would like to make that a “prompt.”

    Let’s face it you guys are just so pisssssssed off. I am going to take Abdul’s advice. I am going to keep posting what I know. You guys are so easy to play with after a hard night’s work in the “you know where.” Oooooh, THE STATE.

    So, by all means, I say “BRING IT ON!” Ooops, that line is already copyrighted by your hero.

    Thanks Brett and Abdul for your encouragement. By the way Abdul, did you know I have a few cousins named after you? Cool, huh! Small world.

    Sorry Dave, I just could not resist all the tough guys’ cowardly and shameless cold threats.

    Rich,

    I will try to post on your blog as soon as I get a chance. Your posts do require some thinking, unlike a few others I care not to mention.

    Marilyn Farhat (see, I signed my name).

  26. Anonymous
    January 12, 2007 at 1:30 am

    mr usa bush president

    why do you want to start a 9.11 everywhere in the world?

    signed
    da world

  27. marianne
    January 12, 2007 at 2:47 am

    Give me a glass of Legg, a sprinkle of Dave, a touch a Tom and victory cigar. Great show!!

  28. Dave Congalton
    January 12, 2007 at 6:46 am

    From Friday’s Washington Post:

    Still, the ferocity of the congressional condemnation dismayed the White House, which had hoped to rebuild an element of bipartisan consensus around Bush’s plan. It was further indication that the new Democratic Congress is headed toward a series of potentially epic clashes and floor votes over the conduct and funding of the nearly four-year-old war.

    Congressional skepticism is being fueled by the public: A majority of Americans oppose Bush’s decision to send more troops, and only one in three said the plan will probably make victory in Iraq more likely, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.

    Rice appeared to be on the receiving end of the toughest grilling yesterday, before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Not a single senator from either party expressed support for the president’s plan, many posed hostile questions, and others expressed deep doubt about the Bush administration’s premise of creating a viable democracy in the heart of the Middle East.

  29. Rich from Paso
    January 12, 2007 at 6:48 am

    For those of you that heard me when I was on Dave’s show back a couple of months ago, I said that there were four things that needed to happen with regard to improve the operation in Iraq. They were: Control the borders with Iran and Syria, take on the Shiite militias, add troop strength in Al Anbar province and Baghdad and get the troops into the neighborhoods and live among the Iraqis not just patrolling and going home, which will squeeze the insurgents so tight they won’t be able to turn around without a soldier standing behind them. President Bush’s speech last night makes me look like a psychic because he was 4 for 4 on my recommendations.

    Bush talked about gaining the promise of Maliki that the militias would be dealt with and the political restrictions on going after the Shia militias was gone. The president called out Iran for supplying arms and know-how to the insurgents and shia militia and also called both Syria and Iran out for having allowed terrorists to cross their borders unimpeded. Bush vowed to stop that with the new troops. He said that al Anbar was the new hotbed of terrorism and was going to root it out. And he said that five combat brigades were going into Baghdad and were going to marry up with two Iraqi brigades, working side by side with their Iraqi counter parts.

    But Bush went further. He appointed a State Dept. rep to oversee reconstruction. He got the Iraqis to pony up $10 billion for their reconstruction. He put Gen Patraeus in MNCI commander, who had great success up in the Kurdish region. Bush said he got a new oil revenue sharing agreement so that all Iraqis get a share of the profits and he said that the Iraqi legislature was going to make it easier to amend the Iraqi constitution so that the Sunnis will get a voice. All in all, I think it was a great plan. Now, like every operation, the proof is in the pudding and that pudding is how the plan is executed.

    I want to bring up something here that some of you might have missed. Did you catch the part of the speech were Bush said that he was sending PATRIOT missile batteries and another carrier group to the Persian Gulf? Why? Did you do the math on where the 8 BCTs were going? 5 to Baghdad and one to al Anbar. The rest are presumably going to the border with Iran to interdict the arms shipments from coming across the border. I think that there is something else afoot. Why send anti-aircraft missiles to a region where no enemy aircraft fly? Why send a carrier battle group when the insurgents don’t have a navy? I think that the president is using the surge to position forces for a possible attack on the Iranian nuclear facility. I have zero proof for this, just trying to put 2 and 2 together. What do you all think?

  30. REDLEG
    January 12, 2007 at 9:14 am

    Folks.

    The irony here is that we are trying to police and control a country thousands of miles away, and we can’t even police and control our own borders.

    This administration has FUBAR’d this whole supposed “GWOT” from day one. Their first mistake was failing to “listen” to history. Afghanistan is far from a success story. NOTHING has changed. At any given point in history a technologically advanced military entity has engaged in combat in this region. There were the British in the 19th century. They failed. That was one region of the empire the sun never touched. What about the events of this last century when Ivan invaded Afghanistan? That failure was very painful to the “Rodina”.

    You are sadly mistaken if this so called “GWOT” can be addressed in the same fashion as a conventional war. Such trite comments like “bombing them back to the stone age” are spewed forth by troglodites with the IQ of a hollow walnut. The war on terrorism will always be there and always changing like the boogey man of our childhood.

    The Battle of Kursk in 1943 signaled the end of the large scaled movements of men and machines on the modern battlefield. The wars of the future will be waged in the shadows and any “issues” that need to be addressed will be handled “sparingly” and efficiently.

    Kipling once wrote that, “East is east. West is west, and never the twain shall meet.” Let’s keep this in mind when dealing in that part of the world.

    Speaking of Kipling. I am reminded of something else he wrote. I believe it went something like this: “When you find yourself dying on Afghanistan’s plains. And the women come out to pick at your remains. Roll over to your rifle and blow out your brains. And go to your God like a soldier.”

  31. JerryDinAZ
    January 12, 2007 at 2:44 pm

    I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT RICH. AT ANY COST, POPULAR OR NOT, IRAN MUST NOT GET A NUKE.
    THANK GOD WE HAVE A PRESIDENT WITH A BACKBONE RATHER THAN ONE WITH ANOTHER TYPE OF BONE.
    BUSH IS ON TASK…BUBBA WAS ON INTERNS.

    EVEN AFTER TAKING CONTROL OF BOTH HOUSE AND EVEN HERE ON THIS BLOG…WE HAVE STILL NOT HEARD FROM ANY OF THE BUSH HATERS WHAT THEIR PLAN IS IN IRAQ OTHER THAN RUNNING AWAY SCARED!

    WELL? OTHER THAN CUT-N-RUNNING YOU ISLAMOCANTS GOT ANY PLAN?

  32. Rich from Paso
    January 12, 2007 at 8:47 pm

    First of all Redleg, the Battle of Kursk did not “signal the end of large scale military movements.” It did signal the end of Nazi Germany and supremacy of the Soviet T-34 tank over the Panzers of Germany. So, the Battle of the Bulge was a fat German trying to drop a few pounds? The Inchon Invasion during the Korean War was six Americans in a rowboat? The Famed “left hook” during Desert Storm was Schwarzkopf actually punching Saddam in the jaw? Yeah, there is someone here with the intellect of a hollow walnut, and it is you, my firend. Obviously military history is something you are just not any good at.

    Jerry: I am no longer interested in what liberal “plans” are. Liberals spew words liek water over Niagra Falls; they mean nothing. I want to know what actions the United States should take to keep Iraq out of the hands of al Qaeda and Iran. What actions should the soldiers on the ground take to fix the mess that is taking place today? What actions should this country take if we are to prevent another 9-11? I suspect that we will hear only silence and a lot of 20/20 hindsight from them. Because actions speak louder than words, I think the liberals will be mute on the subject.

    One last things here before I go… I am willing to concede now that Dave, Bob, marilyn and the rest of the Defeatocrat liberals are right: this is just like Vietnam. So I say in response: if Vietnam it is, then that is the way it needs to be fought. I now call for a national draft of every able bodied man and woman between the ages of 18 and 35. Not a lottery but a callup of those people. We will begin arclight bombings of every square inch of the Afghanistan-Pakistan border. We need to start carpet bombing al Anbar province. We need to take it one step further; we need to start rationing items here at home. We need to retool factories for war production. Since our soldiers deserve only the very best equipment, all combat units will have Stryker combat vehicles since they have the best survivability against IEDs. When a unit deploys to Iraq, they stay there for the duration of the operations plus 90 days. If our grandfathers could walk across Europe for three years, then today’s Army, the best the world has ever seen, can stay in Iraq and fight. No unit goes home in a year. You will be there until the job is done and the war is won. Oh, and when victory is close at hand, the liberals can get all jelly spined again and cut off funding and ensure that all of this effort is wasted. If were going down this bogus “replay of Vietnam” rabbit hole, let’s do it right.

  33. Rich from Paso
    January 12, 2007 at 9:40 pm

    Jerry: You should go to my new blog “Reporting from War-torn California” here and see what I have done. I have taken normal news reporting from the LA Times and rewrote it just the same way the MSM does in Iraq. There are zero good news stories it it, just like the zero good news stories coming out of Iraq. I plan on doing this for a year. After that year, if people read it, they should be ready to cut and run from Los Angeles and California just like the public supoosedly wants to cut and run from Iraq. It is good fun.

  34. JerryDinAZ
    January 12, 2007 at 11:37 pm

    I HAVE BEEN TO YOUR SITE RICH, AND I LIKE WHAT YOU ARE DOING. I THINK YOUR COMMON SENSE APPROACH IS LOST ON THE DUMBOCRATS THOUGH.

    AND SPEAKING OF DUMBOCRATS!
    HOW CAN YOU LEFTY SP’s BE PROUD OF YOUR PARTY?

    1) YOU HAVE NO PLAN FOR IRAQ EXCEPT TO HATE THE PLAN BUSH AND THE MILITARY PUT TOGETHER

    2) NAMBLA NANCY LOLLAPALOOZA LET THE STAR-KIST COMPANY OFF THE HOOK FOR THE MIN. WAGE INCREASE! (GUESS WHERE THEIR CORP HEADQUARTERS IS? YEP! SAN FRANCISCO!)

    3) AND BAABWA BOXLESS HAS ATTACKED THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE USA, CONDI RICE, BY MAKING A REALLY FOUL COMMENT ABOUT HER NOT HAVING CHILDREN!

    THE HOLE IS GETTING DEEPER…BY 2008 YOU MAY NOT EVEN HAVE A PARTY.

    THINK IT OVER…GET COUNSELING FOR ALL YOUR HATE AND WISE UP…THERE IS STILL TIME. DON’T FORGET…I WARNED YOU!

  35. Dave Congalton
    January 13, 2007 at 6:37 am

    Jerry,

    Nice try, but the name-calling gets you nowhere. You and Rich can blame the media all you want. We know it is merely foreshadowing what the conservatives will be doing for decades. We’ll constantly hear the argument, “We could have won in Iraq, but that damn liberal media turned the country against our men and women.”

    These are the same conservatives who argue that we could have won in Viet Nam if only we had gotten out of our military’s way and let them go in with full force.

    It’s not up to the Democrats to have a plan. This is a mess createdly solely by an inexperienced president who rushed us into war and refused to consider the implications. The Democrats are providing oversight.

    This is Bush’s war. Let him fix the mess.

  36. Marilyn
    January 13, 2007 at 7:01 am

    One has to wonder with so many people and politicians opposed to sending more troops to Iraq how the President will have the ability to push for the 21,000 more troops. Why is it that in a Congress that is mostly democrat and supposedly opposed to more involvement that this may soon happen and that we will stay in Iraq?

    I repeat what I said before. Both Democrats and Republicans are benefiting from this war. An exit strategy was never part of the process because it was not the main focus. The focus of the invasion was getting rid of the Ba’th regime and weakening the nation of Iraq in order to facilitate the geo-strategic control over the Middle East and its resources through sectarian and ethnic manipulation and sabotage. The whole Middle East is to be weakened. The Neo Con Agenda is still on track. That is why the Iraqi army was disbanded in the first place and that is why psychological humiliation was inflicted on the population en masse. It is going to be extremely difficult to rebuild a disciplined army whose “fired” members are expected to “cooperate” and be trained by the same invaders who fired them in the first place and who contributed to them forming the “insurgency.” The issue of trust (or lack of it) is ignored in politics and social and international relations. Trust is extremely important in building good will and strong alliances. We have lost the trust of the Iraqis and the world as a whole. We also helped shift Iraq from a secular state to an increasingly religious and Shi’ite controlled one while at the same time complaining about Iran’s influence with Hezbollah and Muqtada Sadr.

    Our politicians seem to forget that it is through the policies of the United States in the 1990s that the religious fundamentalist movements in the Middle East saw their military birth in the guise of Bin Laden, the Taliban and their disciples. We did it for selfish ends without much foresight. We dictated policy to other nations as opposed to discussion. We are still doing business as usual while expecting different outcomes. Are we stupid?

    We are still using double speak when discussing “leaving Iraq.” An exit strategy was never part of the planning. There are many in both parties who would prefer to see us in Iraq and in the Middle East indefinitely. All the political rhetoric is just that.

    Iraq is the beginning of the adventure, in my opinion. But time will tell.

  37. Bob from San Luis
    January 13, 2007 at 7:58 am

    Marilyn: I am a lifelong Democrat and I mostly vote for Democrat candidates since most of them share the same ideals and values that I do. I would actually prefer to vote for more progressive candidates but until we change our voting system, most third or fourth party candidates don’t stand much of a chance. That preface was meant to show that I don’t think that Democrats cannot be wrong, just look at Joe Lieberman. I will defend the Democrats in Congress (except Sen. Lieberman) against your charges that “they are not doing anything to stop the troop escalation”; they have been in power for one week- the focus has been on achieving their first hundred hour agenda, which they have been doing very well. Bills they have completed and that are on the way to the President’s desk include implementing the 9/11 Commission’s 79 recommendations, raising the minimum wage, funding stem cell research, allowing Medicare to negotiate drug prices for seniors on Part D, and to reform the ethics committees duties including stripping away pensions from members of Congress who are convicted of serious felony charges. Should Congress tell the President that he doesn’t have a blank check to send the military anywhere he wants? Hell yeah. The reality is that the President is the Commander-in-Chief however and that does give him a lot of discretion in directing the military. Those who say the Democrats have no plan for Iraq or that they could stop it right now do need to face the fact that as bad as it is in Iraq, it is solely the creation of George W. Bush, like Dave just commented, and is his problem to fix. Marilyn, do you have any suggestions as to how the Democrats should respond to the Presidents “new” plan?

  38. Rich from Paso
    January 13, 2007 at 8:17 am

    Dave, when North Vietnamese generals say that 30 more days of relentless bombing and they would have sued for peace, it is no longer Jerry and my opinion but FACT that we could have won or at least saved South Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos from the carnage that followed our retreat from Vietnam. That defeat rests squarely on the shoulders of the pacifist Democrats that cut off funding for the war. As someone who has served in Iraq, I can tellyou that shoudl be no reason why we can’t win in Iraq. Another fact for you: More people were murdered in Los Angeles last year than American soldiers were killed in Iraq last year (1,085 in Los Angeles compared with 824 in Iraq). How many more Americans have to die in Los Angeles before we get wise and realize what carnage is going to our south? Gangs are out of control, the Police Chief is desparate for answers, and innocent civilian Los Angeles residents live in fear. At least our soldiers have body armor and they all carry an M-16. What defense do the citizens of Los Angeles have? None.

    2,351 Californians died on our highways in the first six months of 2004. That is three times the number of soldiers that died in Iraq all of last year when things were so bad. I don’t mention Iraqi casualties because I know all you liberals don’t give a shit about Iraqi casualties. In terms of wast of lives, our love affair with the automobile will continue to kill men, women and children at a rate three times the amount our soldiers die in Iraq. How many more children must die before we get smart and create a safer mode of travel in this country? If you really cared about the loss of life you would be dedicating show after show on this tragedy trying to build awareness.

    So, when can we expect to hear “Hometown Radio from Baghdad”? I’m telling you, you really ought to go and see for yourself. You could hitch a ride with Hillary and Beyh when they go to Iraq next here shortly. It will change you mind on things, I promise you.

    If it is Bush’s job to fix the problems in Iraq, tell your buddies in Congress to shut up for ten minutes so he can get to fixing it.

  39. Marilyn
    January 13, 2007 at 10:01 am

    Bob,

    I do have a suggestion. I do not have a plan. As I said, time will tell how the newly elected government will handle the Neo Cons, not just Bush.

    I think they need to do some major lobbying and sit-ins and continue to badger the president. After all, this is not an issue that we can let go of. I think that if people in the peace movement can spend their livelihoods and time struggling for peace and non-violent conflict resolution constantly, our politicians should be able to do the same. There should be a non-stop campaign of being educated about the countries we are involved in. Most politicians really do not understand the Middle East at all. I can assure you of that. To put it in the words of an ex CIA handler in the Middle East, all the information we get about the Middle East comes from Tel Aviv.

    The liberal and democratic movement, as a political movement as opposed to a movement by individuals, has held a racist view of the Muslims and Arabs. That is why it was so easy to invade countries in the Middle East in the first place and that is why places like Guantanamo and other secret prisons that we know exist, continue to function. I always ask, would such things have been allowed to happen to a European or a Jew?

    I have been involved with the peace movement since 2001 in SLO. I was disenchanted with some of my friends whom I tirelessly worked with to avoid the war in Iraq. I love them dearly, but when we are asked that “now that we are in Iraq, we should just shut up and get the job done and get the hell out of there,” and how we should do our best to “democratize” the Iraqis, I get a sense that there is not true understanding of the complexities of the situation. There is no solid background information that prompts the activist. We cannot advocate for anything effectively if we do not know our subject very well and if we do not have universal morality. We cannot say we are against the war and then say that since we are there already we should just finish it. Many fail to realize that most wars that end in occupation turn into wars of prolonged attrition. It happened in Vietnam, In Lebanon with the Israeli occupation of 1982-2000, with the occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq, and with the Israeli occupation of Palestine.

    We cannot say we are against the war in Iraq while we continue to allow the Palestinians to be slaughtered and oppressed daily by our “ally” in the Middle East and while we allow the women of Saudi Arabia, the country with the worst human rights violations in the Middle East, to be oppressed in such a fashion despite the calls by the Arab populations to allow them to get things changed.

    What happened in Lebanon in July of last year was also an eye opener and it really changed things for the Lebanese and the Arabs in general, where the United States was concerned. Iraq was bad enough, but the non-chalantness with which the butchery in Lebanon was allowed to continue and the haste with which uranium tipped munitions were rushed to Israel to incinerate women and children and to level whole towns and villages while voicing “concern” and “support” for the Lebanese people by such asinine comments as “we are witnessing the birth pangs of the New Middle East” by Condoleeza Rice, put a new perspective on things. Such criminal interventions were supported by most Republicans and Democrats. Many Lebanese, even those who opposed our policies, did look up to us with a certain degree of respect. That is all gone. They are still in the grief mode right now and in anticipation of something more horrible. The repercussions of our murderous support of Israel are still to be seen. I do not see Hilary and Lieberman even acknowledging Arab and Muslim suffering.

    That was a heavy blow and it exposed the deep and subconscious racism in the liberal community. I am sure there are many who would disagree with me, but that is the point. Many do not see it.

    I asked people who made such comments, “do you honestly think we went into Iraq to get anything done or to democratize the Iraqis?” Those were the same people who were calling Bush a liar who sent us to war under false pretenses and in violation of international law. That is the double speak I was referring to and it permeates both parties.

    I have also been a registered Democrat since the day I was eligible to vote, but my leanings are farther to the left. Unfortunately, the movement to the left is non-existent on an existential level in the United States. It died in the early 20th century.

    I still vote democrat, but I will not vote for Hillary or Lieberman. They are both racist Zionists who view all Palestinians and Hizbollah as terrorists. They view any resistance movement in the middle East, no matter how peaceful, as terrorist. They think in black and white and they are in the pockets of big corporations and do not identify with the ordinary folks.

    If Hilary runs in 2008, I am leaving the democratic party and will probably become an anarchist or something because I do not believe in the 2 party system. That is not a democracy and it leaves a large portion of the American voters outside the system. There are many who refuse to vote because of the two party system.

    I voted for Kucinich in the primaries.

    But to continue to answer the question, yes the Democrats will have to be involved constantly as a party, not to continue to lobby for Israel, but to work for true peace in the Middle East as a whole and insist that all nations in the Middle East be included in the dialog, not just Israel and Saudi Arabia.

    I wonder, if Congress can only declare war, and if permission from the UN is needed for war, why was it so easy to go to war and why are we still there and, instead of planning for pulling troops out, we are talking about sending more in. Are we still going to continue to agree to fund the war? Wasn’t the last allocation approved recently?

    Some of us warned about this years ago. Some of us believe that if the current way of thinking persists, we will continue to see an escalation.

    I think that Americans as a whole need to be in the plan to pull out. Everyone wants to be out of Iraq but they do not know how and they refuse to talk to the nations in the Middle East. You can sense the frustration of the old timers in the intelligence community who are pushing for talks with Syria and Iran, while the hardliners in the government (Republicans and Neo Cons mainly) just insultingly ignore them in public under the pretense that we “cannot negotiate with terrorist governments.” I ask people, tell me, which government in the world is not complicit in terrorist act?

    Change will occur when more people in the United States and the world start feeling the pain of the war. As more soldiers are deployed and as more of them die, you will start to see a shift in the “participation” in resistance to this war as opposed to just “voicing” the dissent. People need to be out on the street on a daily basis. THAT is what it is going to take. Then, the democratic leadership will HAVE to listen. That is true democracy and that is true grassroots participation in politics.

    Despite the shortcomings of the countries of the middle East and their tribal and sectarian conflicts, the average person is more politically active. They really look up to us because we have the freedoms they do not have but they are surprised that we do not make use of them.

    During the last demonstration by the opposition in Lebanon, one forth of the COUNTRY turned up for a demonstration. Imagine what we can accomplish here if even one tenth of our citizens took to the streets and voiced their concerns and shut down Washington. There is nothing subversive about that. THAT is true democracy. But I look around me even now and most of those who are really vocal are women and they are the same people who were doing it 5 years ago. Many in the local democratic party were in support of the war AFTER the invasion because they did not want to seen not supportive of the troops. I used to ask some of them who were vets at Farmers’ Market that if they consider Bush a criminal, why does the military leadership not do something about it? It is within their legal right. Their response was they could not “disobey orders.”
    I still think that the soldiers themselves will have to say “NO SIR” when they are given orders that violate their profession. The resisters among them and their families will be the ones that will cause the greatest impact.

  40. REDLEG
    January 13, 2007 at 11:24 am

    Rich,

    Thanks for outburst. It is obvious that I struck a nerve. Looks (and sounds) like you and your party are “sucking hind tit”.

    It’s pompous, short term, short sighted, pseudo intellectual, and self styled arm chair generals that have gotten this nation embroiled in this useless and wasteful debacle. And for what?

    We have destabilized the entire region by our actions in Iraq. WMD’s my @#%! Saddam could give a damn anything going on outside of his borders. The last thing he wanted was radical islamists within his borders. They posed a threat to him and his interests. With Saddam out of the picture the gates are open for radical islam from Iran to move west. Of course Israels “ham fisted” methods dealing with the Palestinians hasn’t helped either.

    It’s now just a matter of time before the Russians and the Chinese form a alliance to protect their interests. Both countries have an abundance of natural resources and ready markets for them (not to mention the Chinese have us by the “short hairs”. For christ’s sake WE OWE THEM MONEY!!!.

    The EEU is adding more members. And as time goes by they are working out their birth pains on the way to becoming a new, and formidable, continental nation. It won’t be long before Latin America follows suit. The signs are there.

    What about the Arab nations? Let me clue you in…they have been trying since the last century! And we have now paved the way for that to happen. We are now the threat. We are the boogie man hiding in the closet waiting to jump out and pounce on them. And they will rally around that threat.

    So I guess your suggestion (demand?) that we bring back the draft would be great idea. I say we declare war on everybody. Hell, why don’t engage in some pre-emptive strikes. How about a balanced full bodied blend of conventional and NBC warfare?

    Let’s go on a full war footing. Let’s ration food and fuel. Only those individuals who serve in critical areas of national defense should be allowed to posses vehicles. Everyone would have to rely on a limited public transportation system. The draft age would have to be changed. How about drafting able bodied males (and females) ages 16 to 55. While we’re at it lets get rid of the public school system and set up a network of military schools which provided a rudimentary education, but focus on martial skills.

    We also have to meet manpower demands. I propose a “lebensborn” program. Any female who does not wish to serve can be of service to the war effort by breeding future soldiers for the military. Man, this starting to sound familiar.

    Who’s with me?

    p.s. Rich, grow up. Your myopia cannot be corrected by looking through rose colored glasses. By the way. Kursk did signal the end of massive troop movements of that scale this last century. Since then troop movements have grown smaller. As weapons become more efficient; number of troops required exponentially decreases.

  41. Rich from Paso
    January 13, 2007 at 6:24 pm

    Redleg, you are an idiot if the first order.

    First, the draft suggestion was pure sarcasm that a nano-intellect, like you, clearly missed. I was illustrating how DIFFERENT the Iraq War is from any other war this nation has fought, because there is not a draft and there is not a “duration plus 90 days” deployment as in WWII and there is no rationing and there is no scrap metal drives or the sort. Prices and wages have not been frozen. On an on, but you totally missed all of that.

    Second, it has been said in many places before and I will say it again: we did not attack them first, they attacked us first, second, third, fourth, fifth, and sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, and tenth times before we responded. So don’t give me that crap that our invasion of Iraq has created all of this instability in the world. As a point of fact: it was always there. War between people is a human as the opposing thumb. This enemy, the Islamofascist, has been plotting and scheming to bring the sharia law of Allah to all the people of the world. There is no stopping them through negotiations, no stopping them through appeasement (no “peace in our time” declarations like Chamberlain did), the only terms the Islamofascists will accept is our unconditional surrender or our death; they do not want a peaceful co-existence. So get your head out of the sand and understand that while you wail and moan the evils of the Great Satan “George W. Bush”, the real Great Satan is plotting and scheming for our destruction.

    That lecture aside, I know what you are getting ready to say before you say it, “But Rich, you neocon fool, Iraq HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT WAR ON ISLAMOFACSISM THAT YOU RANTED ABOUT!!!” And you would be right, to a degree. I have conceded a long time ago that the reasons for the Iraq War had very very little to do with the Global War on Terrorism. I have said for a long time that the preoccupation with WMDs was the wrong main reason to go to Iraq. You liberals may have been right that the importance to go to Iraq was NEVER there, but that is water under the bridge. We are there and that is the only relevant fact here. I have said on numerous occasions that a war is never over until the enemy agrees it is. That is why Iraq is now part of the Global War on Terrorism. Count on this; wherever Al Qaeda and their surrogates are fighting, that is part of the GWOT. Trust me when I tell you that American Special Forces are fighting Al Qaeda today in places like Thailand, Bolivia, Peru, and the Philippines. Somalia is part of the GWOT as is Iraq. The simple answer to when our troops can come home is this: when al Qaeda and the other elements trying to tear apart Iraq stop fighting or when the Iraqis are able to take the fight on themselves is when we will come home. One other thing, no armchair general can come up with these plans. Bush is the one that says “we need to attack Iraq”, it is the generals and their staffs that come up with the plans. When Bush says that any mistakes rest with him, that is because he is the Commander-In-Chief and the boss and all responsibilities rest with him. But he didn’t craft the invasion plan, Tommy Franks did, and he didn’t craft the occupational military strategy, Generals Sanchez and Casey and Metz and Abazaid did. And Bush didn’t create this latest plan, GEN Patreus and his staff did.

    Finally, what crack are you smoking to think that Kursk was the beginning of the end of large scale movements? First, it was the largest battle ever because the Soviet Union fought every battle with a shitload of infantry because that was the largest force they had. The Soviets fought attrition warfare across the entire Eastern Front. The Soviet response to the Barbarossa invasion, Stalingrad, the siege of Leningrad and Kursk were all battles of attrition. Second, I don’t know what you consider “smaller”. Since WWII, 780,000 Chinese invaded Korea after our 480,000 US and 590,000 troops made it to within 20 miles of the Yalu River. 40,000 men took part in the Inchon landing. During the Tet Offensive, yeah the one that Cronkite said made the war unwinnable, 85,000 Viet Cong and PAVN troops fought 50,000 or so US troops across all of South Vietnam. By the way, we lost 1,534 troops in SIX MONTHS. We had 600,000 coalition forces going into Iraq in the Gulf War and 300,000 total forces going into Iraq this time. Only an armchair general, such as yourself, discounts the numbers of forces used in conflicts since Kursk a less because you don’t understand the logistics involved with the movements of large forces. Kursk was a land battle between two continental forces; supply trains are easy. The 600,000 in the Gulf War is more logistically difficult than Kursk due to the distances covered. Stick to politics, you seem to be better at that.

    Marilyn, wars that lead to occupation that degenerate into wars of attrition appear to only take place in the Middle East. China has had Tibet for the past 50 years. We have been in Germany for 50 years with no war of attrition. Same goes for Japan and the former Soviet conquered Warsaw Pact countries. I suppose that Vietnam started as a war of conquest by the French that degenerated into a war of attrition. So, it appears that your generality is limited only to the equatorial regions of the world.

  42. JerryDinAZ
    January 13, 2007 at 6:27 pm

    MANY HERE HAVE SPELLED OUT THEIR LOYALTIES QUITE CLEARLY…

    MARILYN IS LOYAL FIRST TO HEZBOLLAH. A MUSLIM WILL NEVER BE LOYAL TO THE UNITED STATES. HER LOYALTIES ARE TO ALLAH AND THE DESTRUCTIVE, TERRORIST RELIGION OF ISLAM. LAST ON HER LIST IS THE USA. MAKE NO MISTAKE WITH HER OR ANY OTHER MUSLIM.

    SHE SUPPORTS THE PALESTINIANS WHICH WAS A TERRORIST GROUP STARTED, TRAINED AND FUNDED BY THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD, THROUGH IRAN, WHEN THE ARAB WORLD SAW A REAL THREAT TO THE JEWS RETURNING FROM THE DEATH CAMPS TO THE MIDDLE EAST. ALL MUSLIMS WANT TO KILL ALL JEWS ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH…THEN FINISH OFF THE WESTERN COUNTRIES. NOTHING HAS CHANGED SINCE TIME BEGAN.

    THE DEFATOCRATS ARE SIMILAR. THEY HATE AMERICA! AND EVEN MORE THEY HATE THAT A BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN IS IN THE WHITE HOUSE. THEY HATE OUR MILITARY AND WHAT IT STANDS FOR. IT GOES BACK TO JOHNSON WHO BELIEVED THE SAME AND SO SET ABOUT TO DESTROY OUR GREAT NATION AND THE REPUTATION OF OUR MILITARY BY ORCHESTRATING THE DEFEAT IN VIET NAM. THE LIBS WANT CONTROL AGAIN OVER THE MILITARY, BUT SINCE THEY DON’T HAVE IT AND WON’T GET IT FOR SOME TIME, THEY WILL DO WHAT THEY CAN BEHIND THE SCENES BY HATING BUSH SO MUCH THAT THE PUBLIC WILL TURN FROM WHAT IS GOOD AND RIGHT ABOUT BUILDING A STABLE AND DEMOCRATIC IRAQ, ALL TO THE DESTRUCTION OF AMERICA’S REPUTATION WORLDWIDE. THEY ARE JOINED BY THE LIBERAL SECULAR PROGRESSIVES IN THE MAIN STREAM MEDIA. JUST LISTEN TO WHAT THEY SAY?

    “It’s not up to the Democrats to have a plan. This is a mess created solely by an inexperienced president who rushed us into war and refused to consider the implications. The Democrats are providing oversight. This is Bush’s war. Let him fix the mess.”

    THEY WANT US TO LOSE IN IRAQ AT ANY COST. IT IS THEIR MANTRA!

    YOU ARE NOW WATCHING THE AWAKENING OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO THE SCAM PERPETRATED ON THEM BY A ANTI-AMERICAN DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND THEIR COHORTS IN THE LIBERAL MAIN STREAM MEDIA

    RICH IS ONTO SOMETHING HERE…WATCH HOW THE NEWS IS REPORTED ON IRAQ AND LA! BRILLIANT! THE LIBS DON’T CARE ABOUT CRIME IN LA, THAT’S NOT THEIR AGENDA. THEY ONLY CARE ABOUT HOW MUCH BAD NEWS THEY CAN THROW AT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO TURN THEIR SUPPORT AWAY FROM BUSH AND WINNING IN IRAQ. BUT THEY WILL FAIL!

    THIS IS A GREAT AND NOBLE COUNTRY. WE VALUE LIFE, AND FREEDOM AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. IT’S ALWAYS BEEN THE AMERICAN WAY… WHILE OUR ENEMY (ISLAM) VALUES MARTYRDOM, DEATH AND DESTRUCTION OF ENTIRE RACES.

    THE POLLS HAVE ALREADY TURNED. AMERICA IS SEEING WHAT IS BEING PERPETRATED ON THEM. THEY HAVE AWOKEN FROM THE “REALITY TV” SLUMBER. THEY SEE WHAT IS GOING ON. THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WANT US TO WIN IN IRAQ. THEY WANT US TO, AT ANY COST, KEEP IRAN FROM OBTAINING A NUCLEAR BOMB. THEY WANT US TO SUPPORT OUR LIFE LONG FRIENDS AND ALLIES IN ISRAEL. THEY WANT DEMOCRACY IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND THEY WANT TERRORIST BROUGHT TO THEIR COWARDLY KNEES AND BROUGHT TO JUSTICE…LIKE SADDAM! THEY WANT WOMEN AND CHILDREN LIBERATED FROM HATEFUL ISLAMIC DOMINATION, AND ABUSE.

    READ BETWEEN THE LINES DEAR BLOGGERS…SHED YOUR HATE AND SEE THE TRUTH! MUSLIMS WANT YOU DEAD! AND THEY DON’T CARE HOW THEY ACHIEVE IT. THE DEMOCRATS ARE JUST THEIR PAWNS.

    THE TIME IS NOW TO RALLY AROUND THE IRAQI PEOPLE, OUR COURAGEOUS PRESIDENT AND STAND UP FOR WHAT IS RIGHT.

    MARILYN IS WRONG! WE CAN FIGHT A CONCEPT AND WE WILL AND WE WILL WIN! ALL MUSLIMS HATE THAT FORTITUDE BECAUSE IT DWARFS THEIR THOUSANDS OF YEARS OF HATE AND KILLING IN THE NAME OF A DEAD GOD.

    ALL ARABS WANT PEACE AND DEMOCRACY BUT THE OVER 1500 TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS SQUELCH THAT WITH THREATS AND ACTS OF MURDER OF ANYONE THAT OPPOSES THEM.

    AMERICA WILL OPPOSE THEM AND WE WILL WIN FREEDOM FOR MILLIONS OF WOMEN AND CHILDREN LIVING UNDER THE OPPRESSIVE HATE AND IDEOLOGY OF A CORRUPT RELIGION

  43. Marilyn
    January 13, 2007 at 6:56 pm

    Hello Bob,

    Just FYI and for other Democrats and others, a new progressive club has been formed in SLO. I just got the email this morning. Unfortunately, I cannot link the email information to this site. I am giving you the link to my blog. I just posted the information on there on the right column.

    This club was the brain child of the local Democrats who were dissatisfied with the local Democratic party. It is expected to be more “progressive” and action oriented. If you are not aware of it, please check it out at

    http://hiwartalkalogue.blogspot.com/

    Best wishes.

    Marilyn Farhat.

  44. Marilyn
    January 13, 2007 at 7:44 pm

    Rich,

    I will just address China and Tibet and absence of attrition:

    WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN LIVING? (I am pulling a Jerry here).

    There is a viable Tibetan resistance movement, but that movement tends to be passive and it is also IN EXILE. Even that did not save the Tibetan clergy and nuns who were raped an murdered for decades. It did not stop the constant violence.

    The Tibetan culture within Tibet is almost extinct. That is why the killing is going down at this point in time. The Chinese have settled large communities of Chinese in Tibet deliberately (does that remind you of another colonial state in the Middle East that is doing the same)? Are you advocating that resistance movements turn passive as the slaughter continues? Would you have wanted the Lebanese and Palestinians to sit there why they were being told that no matter what they did, their homes were still going to be demolished and their children killed. Just who do you think you are and who do you think the Israelis are?

    Your statements are encouraging colonial aggression while condemning resistance movements against such aggression.

    So, the Tibetans are heroes because they just lie there while they are completely overwhelmed by the Chinese colonists. The Arabs should do the same, right???? Fat chance.

    So, no, sir. The Middle East is not the only place where wars of attrition take place. Look at the over 30 or more conflicts that take place around the globe in any year and count the number of dead, maimed, raped, tortured and imprisoned.

    Is it also possible that the major occupations that are in process now ARE in the Middle East? Ask yourself, who are the occupiers? Who is ALWAYS occupying and invading whom in the Middle East and paying regular murderous visits with bomber jets, laser guided missiles, and secret missions?

    But we LOVE those guys don’t we.

    Marilyn Farhat.

  45. JerryDinAZ
    January 13, 2007 at 10:50 pm

    Ask yourself, who are the occupiers?

    RADICAL FACIST ISLAM IS THE ANSWER!

    WE ARE THERE TO LIBERATE THE WOMEN AND CHILDREN THAT THEY HAVE BEEN OPRESSING FOR CENTURIES. AND TO PROTECT OWN FROM THEIR HATE.

    MARILYN…GO HOME

  46. Rich from Paso
    January 13, 2007 at 11:10 pm

    Always occupying in the Middle East? Who could you possibly be talking about? It can’t be the United States since we weren’t “occupying” anything in the Middle East (I’m counting North Africa here) until 1942. Sure Standard Oil capped the artisian oil wells on the Arabian penninsula back in 1933 bringing the penninsula into the 20th century, but that was just business. If you are talking about Israel, well I guess it will jsut be from which point of vie you want to look at it from. Some will say that the Israelis as decendants of ancient Hebrews are jsut another arab tribe occupying land in the Middle East. After all the Houe of Saud had no more right to the Arabian penninsula than any other tribe. They just happened to be one of the more influencial that struck a deal first with the British against the Ottoman Turks, which happened to displace the Hashimites to Jordan. I guess the Saudis had no problem breaking a few Hashimite eggs to get their omelet. But saying that anyone tribe in the Middle East “owns” what ever land they happen to be standing on is specious at best. The only thing the Arab tribes can agree on is that they hate the Hebrew tribe staking a claim in “traditional” Arab lands because Great Britain and the United Nations said so. For that matter, the only reason why Aquavelvanijad (a scruffy Persian, not Arab) in Iran cares a whit about Israel is that it fires the angers of the Arabs up against them and the United States.

    I havd seen posts of yours on other blogs where you have said that you have been working for peace since 2000/2000. Who’s peace? On who’s tems? I guess the Warsaw Pact countries knew peace so long as they didn’t pisstheir Russian masters off. Was there peace in Lebanon before the Israeli assaults this summer? I suppose there was so long as the lebanese didn’t piss Hezbollah or their Syrian masters off or you would end up dead like Hariri. For that matter, where in the world is there any peace? Name me a country and I can tell you who they are in conflict with. Try it. It will be fun. “World Peace” is a fantasy that is found in the furtile imaginations of liberal peace activists and Miss America contestants. The reality is that peace is the period of rearming for the next war.

    Still waiting to hear your response to my assertion that you and other Muslim women are culpable in your own oppression at the hands of your Muslim patriarchal society. I am assuming that your silence on the subject and your desire to answer other blog enties means that you are struggling to find an answer acceptable to your Hezbollah handlers.

  47. Anonymous
    January 14, 2007 at 2:56 am

    Rich said to marilyn: “you are struggling to find an answer acceptable to your Hezbollah handlers.”

    Hezbollah handlers? So this is what the Dept of Homeland Security has been talking about eh?

    hmmmm are we onto something here?

  48. Marilyn
    January 14, 2007 at 6:59 am

    Anonymous said…

    Rich said to marilyn: “you are struggling to find an answer acceptable to your Hezbollah handlers.”
    Hezbollah handlers? So this is what the Dept of Homeland Security has been talking about eh?
    hmmmm are we onto something here?
    ———————

    I say…..Sure we are. We’re on to the fact that Rich is full of hot shit and he’s an armchair wanna be secret analyst who went to Iraq for a year and now he thinks he’s got the scoop on me and Hezbollah.

    I have seen more fighting and killing than Rich will ever see in his life time and have come across every single male moron with a gun out there who thinks he’s hot stuff because he’s got a metal penis that shoots bullets.

    Rich, Where DO YOU come up with these gems? Feel good about yourself when you insult women, especially when they are not white and Christian? Why don’t you go and fight Hezbollah if you feel so strongly about it? Are they bothering you? Do you see them coming over and harrassing you. They are trying to stay in their country away from people like you. Why don’t you just leave them and the rest of the Lebanese and Arabs alone. All they want is for YOU and YOUR handlers to leave them alone. I want YOU to LEAVE ME alone too, you bully.

    That goes for Jerry too.

    If that does not stop you, you are neither gentlemen nor human. Is that how you treat your wives at home when you disagree with them? Or is that part of your racist fantasies?

    Marilyn Farhat.

  49. JerryDinAZ
    January 14, 2007 at 5:04 pm

    TALK ABOUT GRASPING AT STRAWS!

    MARILYN FARHAT (A lebonese born muslim and member of the terrorist organization of Hezbollah)
    “Rich, Where DO YOU come up with these gems? Feel good about yourself when you insult women, especially when they are not white and Christian? Why don’t you just leave them and the rest of the Lebanese and Arabs alone. That goes for Jerry too.”

    HERE ARE THE FACTS:

    1) THE PROUD PATRIOTS, CULTURE WARRIORS AND THE PROUD/BRAVE MILITARY ELEMENTS OF AMERICA HAVE GIVEN LIFE & LIMB TO FREE AND PROTECT MILLIONS OF OPPRESSED AND ABUSED WOMEN AND CHILDREN IN IRAQ! THEY ARE NOW FREE, AND UNDER THEIR OWN ELECTED DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENT. THE ATTACKS NOW COME FROM MEMBERS OF THEIR OWN RELIGION. NOT THE USA!

    2) IRAN, WHICH STARTED, TRAINS, SUPPLIES AND STILL FUNDS THE HEZBOLLAH INSURGENTS IN IRAQ AND THE WORLD, HAS A DEPLORABLE RECORD ON HUMAN RIGHTS OF WOMEN AND CHILDREN. THEY ARE NOTING MORE THAN FODDER FOR THEIR CANNONS OF HATE.

    3)”Why don’t you just leave them and the rest of the Lebanese and Arabs alone”

    WHY? BECAUSE THEY ARE ISLAMIC FASCISTS TERRORISTS OF THE WORST KIND. WE WILL NOT LEAVE YOU OR ANY TERRORIST ALONE UNTIL THAT REGION IS SAFE, SECURE AND DEMOCRATIC. LEARN YOUR LESSON WELL. WE WILL WIN IN IRAQ, IRAN, LEBANON, SYRIA AND ANYWHERE YOU TERRORISTS HIDE.

    WE DID NOT START THIS WAR…BUT WE WILL END IT WITH FULL, COMPLETE AND UNCOMPROMISED VICTORY…FOR WOMEN AND CHILDREN AND THOSE THAT LOVE PEACE AND FREEDOM FROM TYRANNICAL OPPRESSION BY A HATEFUL, KILLING, OPPRESSIVE RELIGION OF ISLAMIC HATE AND VIOLENCE.

    YOUR WORK HERE HAS BEEN UNCOVERED AND EXPOSED! IT MAY BE BEST TO TAKE YOUR TERRORIST RHETORIC BACK TO LEBANON AND WE, ALONG WITH OUR JEWISH ALLIES, WILL DEAL WITH YOU THERE.

    LET’S SEE HOW YOU LIKE LIVING “UNDER” HEZBOLLAH RATHER THAN JUST SUPPORTING IT UNDER THE FREEDOM OUR FOREFATHERS DIED TO PROVIDE YOU. BLOG FROM THERE IF YOU DARE.

  50. Rich from Paso
    January 14, 2007 at 5:27 pm

    Yes , Marilyn Hezbollah bothers me when they bomb my embassies in Lebanon. Yes, Marilyn, Hezbollah bothers me when they blow up the barracks where my fellow Marines were garrisoned during an operation to end yet another civil war in your home country. Yes, Marilyn, Hezbollah bothers me when they tunnel like cowards or sneak in the dead of night from the sea into Israel to murder and kidnap innocent civilians. Yes, Marilyn, Hezbollah bothers me when they blow up the barracks of an Air Force advisor team to the Kingdom of Suaid Arabia. Yes, Marilyn, Hezbollah bothers me when they sell drugs and black market items in AMerica to pay for their war on Israel and America. But, you say, Hezbollah builds schools and clinics. So? Are the people of Lebannon so desparate for some schools and medical clinics that they will take them from murders of children? Well, in a word, yes. The people of Lebannon will gladly accept those things because their Syrian controlled governemetn is feckless and Hezbollah is seen as righteous warriors of the big, bad Israel.
    I’ll fight Hezbollah if I am called to do so or if Hezbollah necessitates it, but I would be equally happy if they would just stop with all the fighting everywhere. I’d think that you and I would agree on this since you are a “peace activist”. But then again, you have never stated on what terms that peace should occur.

    I will not respond to any other of your slurs and insults until you answer for us all what role Muslim women have in their subjugation in the pariarchal Muslim societies. I won’t let you obscure the fact that you refuse to answer a central conponent of your arguments, the vicitimization of Muslim women at the hands of the United States.

    Have a nice day everyone.

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