Home > Uncategorized > Condi, We Hardly Knew Ye

Condi, We Hardly Knew Ye

So here are some more bombshells from Woodward and the 60 Minutes interview. Rich up in Paso likes to accuse me of distorting the facts on Iraq, but I just share the relevant information with you and let you decide. It’s one more example of Bush being asleep at the wheel.

“Members of the Sept. 11 commission said today that they were alarmed that they were told nothing about a White House meeting in July 2001 at which George J. Tenet, then the director of central intelligence, is reported to have warned Condoleezza Rice, then the national security adviser, about an imminent Al Qaeda attack and failed to persuade her to take action.

Details of the previously undisclosed meeting on July 10, 2001, two months before the Sept. 11 terror attacks, were first reported last week in a new book by the journalist Bob Woodward.

The final report from the Sept. 11 commission made no mention of the meeting nor did it suggest there had been such an encounter between Mr. Tenet and Ms. Rice, now secretary of state.

Since release of the book, “State of Denial,” the White House and Ms. Rice have disputed major elements of Mr. Woodward’s account, with Ms. Rice insisting through spokesmen that there had been no such exchange in a private meeting with Mr. Tenet and that he had expressed none of the frustration attributed to him in Mr. Woodward’s book.

“It really didn’t match Secretary Rice’s recollection of the meeting at all,” said Dan Bartlett, counselor to President Bush, in an interview on the CBS News program “Face the Nation.”

“It kind of left us scratching our heads because we don’t believe that’s an accurate account,” he said.

Although passages of the book suggest that Mr. Tenet was a major source for Mr. Woodward, the former intelligence director has refused to comment on the book.

Nor has there been any comment from J. Cofer Black, Mr. Tenet’s counterterrorism chief, who is reported in the book to have attended the July 10 meeting and left it frustrated by Ms. Rice’s “brush-off” of the warnings.

He is quoted as saying, “The only thing we didn’t do was pull the trigger to the gun we were holding to her head.” Mr. Black did not return calls left at the security firm Blackwater, which he joined last year.

The book says that Mr. Tenet hurriedly organized the meeting — calling ahead from his car as it traveled to the White House — because he wanted to “shake Rice” into persuading the president to respond to dire intelligence warnings that summer about a terrorist strike. Mr. Woodward writes that Mr. Tenet left the meeting frustrated because “they were not getting through to Rice.”

The disclosures took members of the bipartisan Sept. 11 commission by surprise last week. Some questioned whether information about the July 10 meeting was intentionally withheld from the panel.”

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  1. Red Neckersniff
    October 2, 2006 at 5:53 am

    Well Dave, thanks for sharing. It is alarming that the 9-1-1 commish is alarmed…but unless Condoleeza says, “oh yeah, I remember now, and uh, I just decided to lie to everybody,and cover the whole thing up, because I only look like I’m smart, uh..tee-hee” what exactly IS the relevance of this journalists claims. His sources are mum (they both work for private enterprise with governmental contracts) and will probably remain so. I doubt that Tenet, a Clinton appointee, will go back to the 9-11 commish and say he forgot to tell about his little midnight visit to Condi, eh? Might have to melt that Freedom Award down for a tie tac. Right about the perfect time, and here comes this Enquirer style BS that one side denies, and the other side jumps all over. I think once again, the Americans who have any amount of horse sense can see this one.

    And even if they DID tell her they were scarity of an attack, it doesn’t sound like they knew any specifics…like who, how, or where, not sure until I read Mr. Redford’s…er..Woodward’s book, and I will reserve judgement, but with that in mind what would Rice do besides pray, ask for more intell, and not panic? “Ok everybody we are on alert” “Why?” “we are gonna get attacked – but that is all that I know” Most agencies don’t respond too well to that kind of ambiguity.

    But I am hoping that people will raise enough hell that she will get to Capitol Hill again, so that we get a chance to see her on camera being “questioned” by say…Barbara Boxer.That’ll be good. Again.

    Bye the bye, speaking of books, lies, and administrations, …I was wondering if anyone besides me caught ex-CIA bin Laden Chief Micahel Scheuer tonight on the tube? Pretty revealing comments on the Clinton – Wallace exchange. Scheuer’s team were boots on the ground on the hunt for UBL during the Clinton years. So his revelations join the other law enforcement officers who have come forward with some pretty remarkable statements.

  2. JerryDinAZ
    October 2, 2006 at 2:36 pm

    ( –__– ) zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    PLEASE! NOT MORE COPY-N-PASTE LIBERAL ATTACK POOPOO!

    LET’S GET BACK TO YOU!

    WHAT IS YOUR PLAN FOR IRAQ?

  3. howard dean
    October 2, 2006 at 2:41 pm

    COPY AND PASTE USING THE MOUSE
    Put the mouse at the beginning of what you want to copy and click the left mouse button, holding it down while you drag over the section.
    Drag across or down. At the end of what you want copied, let go of the mouse button.
    What you want to copy should be highlighted!
    While it’s highlighted, hold down the Ctrl key and hit the letter “c”. This copies the highlighted part to an invisible clipboard.
    Now go to where you want to paste it. Put the cursor on that spot by clicking the left mouse button once. Now hold down the Ctrl key and hit the letter “v” to paste what you copied.
    For more help please visit DNC.com.

  4. Anonymous
    October 3, 2006 at 12:43 am

    Page 210-214 of the 9/11 Commission Report goes through Rice’s directives for covert action in Afghanistan, (page 207 Condi actually speaks with Musharaff about addressing the AlQaeda threat and Bush sends a letter to Musharaff (8/4/01) addressing same).

    Further, the summer of 2001 was spent in many meetings with Clarke, Rice, Tenet, Black and Allen about who is authorized to “pull the trigger” on the armed predator drone and who was going to pay for it. Typical government bureaucracy.

    I would say Tenet has had plenty of months to correct the record of the 9/11 Report if something key was left out. No, let’s wait until Bob Woodward’s book a month before elections.

    It’s time this country get serious about terrorism and quit trying to spin their way out of responsibility. The public is woefully uninformed and rely on blogs and network news to fill their heads.

  5. chuckman
    October 3, 2006 at 5:08 am

    From the Washington Post. Oops!

    A review of White House records has determined that George J. Tenet, then the director of central intelligence, did brief Condoleezza Rice and other top officials on July 10, 2001, about the looming threat from Al Qaeda, a State Department spokesman said Monday.

    The account by Sean McCormack came hours after Ms. Rice, the secretary of state, told reporters aboard her airplane that she did not recall the specific meeting on July 10, 2001, noting that she had met repeatedly with Mr. Tenet that summer about terrorist threats. Ms. Rice, the national security adviser at the time, said it was “incomprehensible” she ignored dire terrorist threats two months before the Sept. 11 attacks.

    Mr. McCormack also said records show that the Sept. 11 commission was informed about the meeting, a fact that former intelligence officials and members of the commission confirmed on Monday.

    When details of the meeting emerged last week in a new book by Bob Woodward of The Washington Post, Bush administration officials questioned Mr. Woodward’s reporting.

    Now, after several days, both current and former Bush administration officials have confirmed parts of Mr. Woodward’s account.

    Officials now agree that on July 10, 2001, Mr. Tenet and his counterterrorism deputy, J. Cofer Black, were so alarmed about an impending Al Qaeda attack that they demanded an emergency meeting at the White House with Ms. Rice and her National Security Council staff.

  6. Conscience of the GOP
    October 3, 2006 at 6:19 am

    Heh-ho, how about those Republican pederasts? – and that cover-up by Hastert? What a side-splitter! Go team!

  7. Red Neckersniff
    October 3, 2006 at 8:20 am

    To “Conscience”: How do you figure Hastert covered anything up? From what I saw on televised coverage, there was no cover up at all…the original email by Foley to the teen was not sexual in nature, and could only be deemed not in the best judgement and inappropriate at best from a man in his position, worthy of a warning from the Speaker to not do that anymore, that it was a dumb thing to do…it was the later text messaging that was sexual in content and criminal. These messages were secreted by Foley for obvious reasons, and caught all by surprise – it appeared that Hastert took reasonable steps with what he knew…the fall out is normal political BS finger pointing (more ammo for those upcoming elections)… then again, I wasn’t watching CNN…but if you want to discuss pedophile cover ups there are a few in democrat closets we can throw out…why don’t you just give that one a rest until all the cards are on the table my friend.

  8. Red Neckersniff
    October 3, 2006 at 8:38 am

    Mortuary Bob’s disclosure of Tenet and Black’s claims are still irrelevant. Rice herself says that during all of her meetings with these people, their information was “nebulous” (translation-you guys don’t have shit). Why all of the liberals are jumping up and down with glee about ready to piss yourselves is that you have the Bush administration scratching their heads and asses, wasting energy trying to respond to this rat reporter who got in good and tight (Bush’s fault – never trust a liberal) and then gave it to ’em right up the rooty tooty. All of the crap discussed is nothing more than finger pointing that can’t be proven (he said-she said) but the desired results are whatever the media can make of it. It has absolutly nothing to do with what is going on in the world. Nothing.

  9. JerryDinAZ
    October 3, 2006 at 4:12 pm

    CLINTON HITS ON DEMI MOORE
    BILL CLINTON’S ‘INDECENT PROPOSAL’ MOMENT! ASHTON KUTCHER TOLD JAY LENO THAT CLINTON “MADE EYES” AT AND WAS “HITTING ON” HIS WIFE AT A RECENT DINNER EVENT.
    RUMORS ARE THAT CLINTON & DEMI WILL OPEN A CHAIN OF CIGAR STORES. ANOTHER RUMOR IS THAT THEY WOULD OFFER A “SCRATCH-N-SNIFF” MONICA STYLE CIGAR HAS YET TO BE CONFIRMED. HILLARY WAS NOT AVAILABLE FOR COMMENT, BUT HER PUBLISIST SAID THAT SHE WAS IN FAVOR OF THE CIGAR IDEA.

  10. Dave Congalton
    October 3, 2006 at 5:39 pm

    Jerry,

    I don’t have a plan for Iraq and, frankly, it doesn’t appear that anyone does.

    But if I were President Bush, I would do a couple basic things: (1) Replace Rumsfeld and rebuild morale within the Pentagon; (2) I’d stay away from Henry Kissinger and spend more time with James Baker and Brent Scowcroft; (3) I’d distanced myself from Dick Cheney.

    Then I would take the next step of reaching out to the Democratic leadership and strive for some kind of bi-partisan consensus on Iraq.

    Finally, I would go hat-in-hand to our traditional European allies and see what they would be prepared to do in order to help stabilize Iraq.

    What I’m trying to say here is that Bush can no longer be the Lone Cowboy. Even Condi has realized that. This mess in Iraq can only be resolved by bi-partisan cooperation and some kind of multi-lateral alliance.

    But I also agree with Murtha on other critics — we’ve got to redeploy and shift the emphasis back to fighting terrorism instead of creating new terrorists.

    Finally, I’m in favor of a military draft. Everyone — and I mean everyone serves for 2-3 years upon turning 18. We can’t do anything without troops.

  11. Dave Congalton
    October 3, 2006 at 5:40 pm

    Jerry,

    I’d rather have Clinton hitting on Demi Moore (and notice that she said no, so nothing happened) than having him hit on a 16-year-old Congressional page.

  12. Barney Frank
    October 3, 2006 at 6:56 pm

    How dare Mark Foley be a gay pedifile and serve in congress. What’s next?

  13. Bob from San Luis
    October 3, 2006 at 7:25 pm

    All of the Republican supporters had better get together so you can unify your message; was it wrong for Mark Foley to email underage pages because he is gay, or is it wrong because, maybe, IT IS WRONG, PERIOD!? I understand that everybody is upset because this was a closeted, gay Republican, who was in charge of protecting our underage kids from internet predators, but the issue here isn’t that Mark Foley was a Republican who did these things, the issue is that we had a United States Congressman committing illegal acts, acts that he helped write as being illegal. The focus needs to be first on Mark Foley; did he break the law? If so, he needs to be arrested, booked, arraigned and tried. The next issue is who knew what, when, and why did they do nothing about it. Speaker of the House Hastert should come clean, layout every single communication to him about Rep. Foley, and answer to the questions of what, when and why he did not do anything sooner. The real problem for Republicans right now is that if they don’t disclose all that they knew, when they knew it and why they didn’t do anything, the public will assume that the Leadership in the House was attempting to cover up this scandal for partisan political purposes. As for any other member of Congress having affairs or whatever, I for one would like any member who has gone after minors to be expelled immediately, regardless of party affiliation. The rest of any sexual escapades are between those members of Congress and their constituents.

  14. Red Neckersniff
    October 3, 2006 at 7:32 pm

    Dave you had some sound comments from a political perspective, at least some refreshing ones besides the tiresome rants that lead to nowhere and are based on nothing more than supposition. Bush and the GOP are in the weeds, no doubt about it, and it will take some doing to get out, but it can be done – these folks have made some misteps, but they are not dumb to political realities. Perhaps the plan has yet to be played out… Dick Cheney is in poor health, a consideration.

    The draft? There is so much division going on, so much strife, unlike when the draft really worked when Japan bombed us. I went through the Vietnam era, and the draft really didn’t produce positive results, especially for a one year tour of duty out of a two yr committment. I have heard of “volunteer draft” plans that were really positive that recruited 20 yr olds for the draft in exchange for scholarships.
    A win-win.

    Now that France has had their nads in a wringer with their economy, their people voting down the EU deal, and the muslim uprising, it may very well be a time for the right diplomacy…Germany too. Screw Spain. Australia, Poland, the UK, and now Canada, are allies. Japan’s new PM wants to rebuild their military and toss out their pacifist policy, and they are an ally also.

    Here’s where we part, Dave; Giving in to Murtha would downgrade the morale of our own forces…they can’t stand that guy and I don’t blame them. Re-thinking a game plan is always a good idea…adapting to make the plan better. Redeployment is not…you know, a Marine Corps hero, Chesty Puller, once said that when the enemy surrounds you, lock and load, because you know where he’s at. My quote isn’t exact, but pretty damn close, and most of our guys don’t take to leaving the fight, especially because some politicians decide that it’s a good thing. The last time we did that, a whole lot of civilians got greased, and they would this time too, like in the millions. And like Rich said, it doesn’t do homage to those who have already spilled their blood.

    If W. thinks that from a political standpoint he has to formulate a new game plan before the Murtha forces take over the Senate, which is a distinct possibility, he will do everything he can to protect our guys over there and continue the mission.

  15. Red Neckersniff
    October 3, 2006 at 7:45 pm

    Bob – I think the issue here is the Congressman’s pedophilia, not his gay lifestyle, closeted or not. Everbody knows it was wrong, even Foley. From what I saw, Hastert seemed to “come clean”, but I am sure that there will be an intense investigation where everyone will “come clean”…shouldn’t we wait and see?

    There are always going to Republican supporters, and even some ‘crats, who are going to bring up the homosexual issue
    because they will link it to his pedophilia and whether or not, if it was known, should he have been in that position. The issue will be out there for debate, like it or not, and the damage control won’t just be limited to the GOP. Sad, but certainly preventable for the safety of future lads.

  16. Rich from Paso
    October 3, 2006 at 8:18 pm

    Okay, here’s my 10 cents worth:

    Bob Woodward: He’s just making hay prior to the election with sensationalized nonsense. Like I said in a previous post, 800-900 attacks a week is irrelevent. Every errant shot, every mortar round falling randomly out of the sky, etc is counted in those attacks. Furthermore, on the “did she/didn’t she” receive a briefing…when does it end? The finger pointing, the “who knew what and when”. There has to come a point in time where both Republicans and Democrats stop trying to extract the pound of flesh from the other side over the past. With 9/11, BOTH sides bear culpability and we can argue and argue until Doomsday who is repsonsible, but in the meantime, there will be a new guy to take the Oval Office from GW Bush in january 2009, it’s inevitable. When that new guy takes over, if we haven’t gotten past the last 16 years, it will only make that guys job just as difficult and nearly impossible to do the right things as has been with the last two guys. The hatchet has to be buried over the Clinton and Bush presidencies sooner or later and the the sooner the better.

    “Who knew what and when” over the Foley story is just what I am talking about. Republicans have to wear rain slickers to keep off all of the salavation Democrats are putting out over their perceived 7th chance to bury the Republicans and take back the Congress. What are we really talking about here? E-mails and Instant messages between Foley and a 16-year old page. Did actual sex of any kind occur? Apparently not. Was Foley’s conduct inappropriate, wrong, foolish, immoral, et al, and all of the above? Yes and no one is trying to defend him. But to try to stretch this into another “Culture of Corruption” Democrat talking point will prove to be just a futile as the last attempts. Additionally, in 1983, Rep. Gerry Studds (D-Il) engaged in actual sex between himself and a 17-year old page, told everyone that it was between two consenting adults and that everyone should mind their own business, was censured, and stayed in Congress for an additional 10 years. Make of it what you will, but Foley seems to have taken a higher road than Studds now that he has been found out.

    I do not support a draft. The members of our armed forces are there of their own volition. They were not mandated, ordered or sentenced to be in the military. The high reenlsitment numbers the exceed goals reflects an understanding of the realities of the Iraq War by our servicemenber and they are cool with it (knock off the Stop-loss backdoor draft nonsense). Even if we were to impose a draft and it survived all of the court challenges it would face (and there would be many), the military would still need three years minimum to adjust the infrastructure to house, train, equip and man the units that all of these new recruits would be intefrated in. Another problem: just like every time a professional sport adds teams, quality of the sport drops, so too would the quality of our military be diminished. Why? Because we would be adding numbers of people that were previously unqualified or did not desire military service. I would only support a draft if that new military was to take off the kid gloves and be let loose to take on Syria, Iran, Sudan, North Korea, Venezula and the Cocaine cartels, destroy the opium production of Central Asia and any other bad guy states or problems. Let’s get it on globally so we can end the draft and go back to a professional standing army. But since no one has the stomach or the political will to solve those problems once and for all, a professional, standing military is serving us just fine.

  17. Conscience of the GOP
    October 3, 2006 at 9:56 pm

    ‘sniffer, are you parsing the seriousness of the propositioning of underage House page(s) for sex by ex-Rep. Foley?

    Thought so. Good for you. It’s how we hypocrites can look at ourselves in the mirror in the a.m.

  18. Conscience of the GOP
    October 3, 2006 at 10:19 pm

    rich, glad to see you’re on board as well.

    You forgot Dan Crane, co-censured with Studds in ’83 for sex with a page.

    It’s okay to compare current social faux pas of our present comrades with the worst of the past. Really, it is. No one can reasonably expect anyone to live up to the unreasonably high expectations we have for our elected representatives.

    So parse away, rich. We understand.

  19. Anonymous
    October 3, 2006 at 10:26 pm

    Dave, the news is moving faster than your blog entries!

    Hang in there. –Greg

  20. Rich from Paso
    October 3, 2006 at 11:00 pm

    You may think its parsing, but it does demonstrate that liberals only choose to come out of the woodwork with indignation when it is 1) an election cycle and 2) when Republicans are involved. The page wasn’t underaged. If you look at the age of consent for DC, there is no age of consent requirement for homosexual (either male or female) conduct but where he may have broken the law is with the means he used to proposition the page. At least as far as I know. Again, not defending the guy, just pointing out the relevant facts. Let’s look back at the recent past when it comes to wrongdoing. Bob Livingston and Newt Gingrich (adultry) resigned for far less and Gerry Studds (underage sex with minor) and Willaim Jefferson (bribery, misuse of government personnel during a crises [well, if it’s not a crime it should be]), didn’t resign for far worse. Liberals say Bush lied to get us into war, conservatives say the Clinton’s lied about this, that and the other thing during the Clinton years. Cunningham, Ney, and Rostenkowski resigned only after conviction. Nixon resigned to try to innoculate the GOP against Watergate and avoid a conviction, which was generally successful. DeLay resigned to try to innoculate the GOP against the appearance of inpropriety, which failed. Hell, Ted Kennedy had a woman die in his car and he’s still a Senator. Robert Byrd was a Grand Wizard for the KKK and he’s still a Senator. Murtha avoided prosecution for ABSCAM because he caviated his refusal of a bribe with the words “at this time”. George Allen may or may not have used the N-word but Webb, his opponent, pretty much says he did. Everyone knows that Foley was gay, so is Kolb in AZ and Frank in MA, so this is not about gay bashing. The bottom line is that there are no ethical standards for any of our elected officials, and when it comes to an election year, all the dirt they hold on each other coems out and is considered fair game.

  21. Conscience of the GOP
    October 3, 2006 at 11:26 pm

    Nice try, rich.

    rich’s bottom line: “Everyone’s corrupt.”
    Except when they’re actually in power.
    Then, (wink, wink), they have “moral lapses” and are forced out. Or not.

    Speaking of moral rectitude, I’m glad one of us is keeping tabs on who in government is gay and who is not.

  22. Wolf
    October 4, 2006 at 12:49 am

    What is wrong with being gay and republican? I can have my fun and keep taxes lower. Morals are way overated if you’re in congress.

  23. Red Neckersniff
    October 4, 2006 at 1:38 am

    Right now, Foley is shakin’ more than a dog passin’ peach pits. Why? well it ain’t because he propositioned some little pageboy with some messages! It’s because the flood gate is going to open, and he is afraid one or more complainants will come forward and lay it all out…so today the talking head is in front of those eager media cockaroaches, whining about how many times Foley got abused as a child, yadda yadda yadda, while Twinkie is sittin’ in his hospital bed rehabin’. If he’s lucky, he will escape with just losing his seat.

    Nobody will rest until they can get as many GOP heads on sticks as they can. Hastert included. High crimes and misdemeanors of yore committed by the “other side” will matter not.

    It appears that these messages were held by “someone” for quite some time before being released at this juncture (I’m sure we will find out why, and who). The point Rich is trying to make is that nobody is trying to defend this guy, but the left should not try to make it sound as if this is something new under the sun, because it isn’t. They would be smart to shut up. Why? Because this is not a Republican problem and this is not a Democrat problem – this is a CONGRESSIONAL PROBLEM. And the American people, in the end, are going to look at Congress and hold their nose. They will remember this, but they won’t care about names or parties. They will only look at the House, and Senate as the Cash ballad calls it,”the Empire of Dirt”. In the end, they (we) care most about our own well being as the USA, and freedom – economics, preservation of what we have, safety, and liberty. All the crap that falls through the cracks in the floorboard just makes life interestin’!

    The page program should be abolished by the President. We have technology that takes their place, and these cats can open their own damn doors. They can give their retirement plans and contribute to social security like the rest of us. They can pay for their own haircuts, gasoline, and buy their own stamps, and while they are on my dime, keep it in their pants no matter the circumstances.

  24. Conscience of the GOP
    October 4, 2006 at 2:35 am

    rich, ‘sniffer;

    Gotta love that deep, deep cynicism. “CONGRESSIONAL PROBLEM” my foot.
    They’re all doing a “heckuva job!”

    This is our nation’s finest, the defenders of Capitalism and Our Way of Life, in action! Moral conflicts, no problem! Just grease the right palms, don’t flaunt your indulgences, back the leadership, and everything is tolerated.

    This is an endemic bipartisan problem, so all we can do is shrug? This is Congress’ responsibility to fix? And who will be running that congressional investigation? The honorable opposition from across the aisle? I think not. What faith do you have in the AG’s office? Gonzales owes congress a big favor from their legalizing torture. Will he bring the truth out, be the bulldog to root out the corruption? I think not.

    This is the leadership we deserve. But it’s not a dysfunctional product of D.C. We have created this society that honors amoral achievement and that bred these monsters. The culture of greed is our gift to the future of this great nation, and the clowns we have honored with our trust to run it are only extreme products of our lack of focus on what’s truly important.

    Let me ask this:
    How often do you write a letter to or call your representative or senator to tell them what you think they should be focusing on, and why?

    How often do you write a letter to the editor or an opinion column on a topic that you feel doesn’t get enough coverage in your newspapers?

    How often do you show up at candidate forums to present your concerns to those who seek your trust & vote?

    Do you attempt to form your own opinion on state ballot initiatives and candidates, or do you vote the ticket?

    In short, how important is citizenship to you? – or is it enough to say that you “gave at the office?”

  25. Rich from Paso
    October 4, 2006 at 4:01 am

    I don’t know what you are the “Conscience” of but it’s surely not the Grand Old Party. Must be a cleaver attempt at humor, like whoever logs in as “Monica Lewinsky” et al.

    To answer your question: I have had letters to the editor published in USAToday, I e-mailed all of our local congressmen as well as Tom Tancredo in Co and the congressional delegation in my birth state of Kansas when the immigration debate was raging, giving them my solution to the border issue (it’s in the archive in this blog if you are curious) among other things. I personally think that the ballot initiatives that Californians create is part of the reason why schools are underfunded and this state is overtaxed. These ballot initiatives allow one group of people to put their hands in the back pockets of the other groups of people without any accountability to the unintended consequences of the initiative. For instance, if Prop 87 passes, it is going to screw Californians AGAIN at the pump and on their electric bill when they pass their costs to the consumers; all costs are transfered to the consumer not matter what the pie-in-the-sky dreamers of Prop 87 say. Ballot initiatives are nice in theory promoting the ancient Greek style democracy and all, but in practice it lets our state representatives off the hook from making tough choices they can be held accountable for.

    So, no, I don’t just “give at the office”.

  26. Conscience of the GOP
    October 4, 2006 at 4:26 am

    Good to hear it, rich. Thanks for the reply.

  27. Conscience of the GOP
    October 4, 2006 at 4:29 am

    California’s citizen initiative system is a disaster, and deserves it’s own thread, as well as a whole series of Congalton shows and public forums.

  28. Bob from San Luis
    October 4, 2006 at 4:45 am

    JerryD, Rich: Here is a plan that calls for some “redeployment” strategy that is put forth by someone no one would consider to be a liberal. If you will read down to the fifth paragraph you will see his “plan” for redeployment. I look forward to your comments.

  29. MTBE Shirley
    October 4, 2006 at 4:52 am

    Please don’t even think about feeding ducks, grow a orange. I know better.

  30. where do you cash you're chips
    October 4, 2006 at 5:36 am

    Iran Asks France to Oversee Enrichment

  31. JerryDinAZ
    October 4, 2006 at 2:48 pm

    DAVE’S DEMOS HAVE A “BETTER” APPROACH?

    BOSTON — FORMER U.S. REP. GERRY STUDDS (D) , THE FIRST OPENLY GAY MEMBER OF CONGRESS, QUIETLY MARRIED HIS LONGTIME PARTNER LAST YEAR AFTER SAME-SEX MARRIAGE BECAME LEGAL IN MASSACHUSETTS, ACCORDING TO A PUBLISHED REPORT.
    STUDDS (68), A LIBERAL DEMOCRAT WHO SPENT MORE THAN 20 YEARS IN CONGRESS, MARRIED DEAN HARA (47) IN BOSTON ON MAY 24, THE PATRIOT LEDGER OF QUINCY REPORTED SUNDAY.

    IN1983 WHEN IT WAS REVEALED THAT STUDDS HAD A SEXUAL RELATIONSHIP WITH A 17-YEAR-OLD MALE CONGRESSIONAL PAGE.

    HE PUBLICLY ACKNOWLEDGED BEING GAY. HIS FELLOW DEMOCRATIC COLLEGES GAVE STUDDS 3 STANDING OVATIONS ON THE FLOOR OF THE HOUSE!.

    STUDDS ADMITTED AN ERROR IN JUDGMENT BUT DID NOT APOLOGIZE, AND IN 1984 WAS RE-ELECTED WITH 56 PERCENT OF THE VOTE.

    SO? THAT’S WAS THE DEMOSLANTS SOLUTION TO THIS KIND OF THING?
    INSTANT MESSAGES VS SEXUAL MOLESTATION?…HMMMM

  32. JerryDinAZ
    October 4, 2006 at 2:53 pm

    BOB!
    I AM SURE THAT AFTER HOURS AND HOURS OF GOOGLING FOR A DEMOSLANTS PLAN FOR IRAQ…THE BEST YOU COULD DO WAHT TO SEND US TO RUSH LIMBAUGH’S WEBSITE?
    OH! THIS IS GETTING REALLY GOOD…THE LIBOCANTS ARE SO LOST!
    AT LEAST THE REPUBLICANS ARE ADDRESSING THE IRAQ ISSUE WHILE ALL THE LIBOCRATS DO IS PUT FORTH MORE AND MORE HATE BUSH CRAP!

  33. SLO voter
    October 4, 2006 at 2:58 pm

    Am I crazy? or does anyone else think that Christine Mulholl and Cindy Sheehan look like sisters?

  34. Rich from Paso
    October 4, 2006 at 4:34 pm

    NEWSFLASH…NEWSFLASH…NEWSFLASH

    Dow Jones closes at 11,757 for the highest close in the stock market’s history; topping the high set in 2000 during the Clinton Administration. In a related story, congressional and senate Democrats are demanding an investigation suspecting plot by Karl Rove and President Bush to influence the election and make the Democrats look irrelevant.

  35. Bob from San Luis
    October 4, 2006 at 5:39 pm

    JerryD: The reason that I linked to Rush’s “plan” for Iraq is that it too contains a call for draw down of our troops, pulling them out of Baghdad and sealing the borders. I for one found this “plan” rich in irony considering that every single plan that calls for a draw down is labeled as “cut and run” by those on the right, and you have one of your most (supposed) admired spokesperson calling for a tactical redeployment. If one were to read the idea put forth by Rush not knowing that it was from Rush, don’t you think that his plan would have been labeled with the same “cut and run” tag that has been applied to all other redeployment plans? Has Rush embraced a “liberal” idea?
    a voter in slo: Does Christine Mullholand resemble Cindy Sheehan? OMFG, do you really believe that could even be an issue? Go away or grow up.
    Rich: Stock market at an all time high? It would be interesting to have an analysis performed that detailed how much of the stock market’s trading involves the stock of the companies who have the no bid contracts in Iraq, how many companies that are trading heavily are energy stocks that this administration has deregulated and are making record profits, how many companies are doing better because they had some sort of business before Congress and received favorable legislation that helped them become more profitable. Another way to say that; how much help has big business gotten from this administration and Congress? Is it any wonder that the “market” responds when every single thing they want in regards to having business friendly laws written have been handed to them on a silver platter?

  36. Red Neckersniff
    October 4, 2006 at 6:21 pm

    Responding to “Conscience”, having just had the chance to read your retort:

    It is you who are the cynic. You can vote your party into office, and it has been the majority in the past, including the Attorney General’s position, whom the rest of us had to trust to do the right thing whether we agreed with it or not. I recall Janet Reno’s tenure.

    Until you can come up with some supportive evidence, what you are blowing out about Gonzales “owing Congress for legalizing torture” is gas. Congress didn’t legalize torture and you know it…that is nothing more than a talking point for your party.

    I do agree that our nation has created what we have, that being the gigantic divide between those on the left and those on the right, but it was not in the name of capitalism alone, it is more complicated.

    The huge divide is because the left has, among many other things, embraced the idea that the redistribution of wealth is a good idea. The hard core left have even taken on a socialist bent. The rest of us still hold to capitalism at it’s finest.

    The left has abandoned traditional values for progressive ones. The list is long. The rest of us have not. It was pointed out to you, over and over, that the GOP as a general rule did NOT “just shrug” when one of theirs did something illegal or ventured away from norms. Not so with democrats. Why? because what is morally correct is viewed differently from either side of the aile.

    Even in the case of Supreme Court Justice hearings, just look at the lopsided manner in which the democrats behaved compared to when Ruth Bader Ginsberg was nominated by President Clinton.

    I still say it is a Congressional problem, because both sides of the aisle are human beings, subject to the same corrupt heart we are all born with. The same frailties, and weaknesses. Holding to professional standards is not too much of a demand from constituents.

    The left has embraced the secular concepts of Western Europe. How many times I have heard that France and Germany and the UK don’t like us anymore. The main reason is because they are secular and go against everything this country was founded on. The right feels that if these countries feel that way, fine. You are losers. Read some French newspaper reports of the comments made by people on the street when our President was there for the D Day commemoration. If this doesn’t make you angry, then you should go live there, and you are a loser, too.

    As far as your questions to all who respond here, I think you would find that the majority is usually led by the minority. Everyone at this blog is a participant in the process, we like it. Go to a mall and ask most passers by about one of the topics we discuss here and they would say “huh?” Ask them about Brad and Angelina and they will prattle on like a mockingbird. They are not attached to what is going on.

    My point is this. The majority of Americans want to work and make money, go home, have din din and maybe a toddy, watch a little tube, get lucky. Two kids, dog, white picket fence, great vacation once a year. Don’t screw with ’em and all is right with the world. They don’t like long wars, and they want the government to keep them, and their stuff, safe. Of those, most of them didn’t even know who Foley was until yesterday. Some still don’t. And most of them, if they are Republicans, are still going to be Republicans, and if they are ‘Crats, same-o.

    Then there are us folks who like to get in it up to our asses because we are just….that way. All of us are just involved in one way or another, and always will be, because …we LIKE IT! adios

  37. Conscience of the GOP
    October 4, 2006 at 6:31 pm

    Stock Market reaches record high? Kudos to Bush & Co.
    Greed is going up: strong buy!
    Virtue is sagging: dump!
    Full speed to another Republican victory!

    I’m relieved that no one is concerned with the US Iraq & Afganistan body count. BTW, it’s passed 3000 “officially” (whatever THAT means).

    My favorite tidbit from the last 24H cycle:
    Both The O’Reilly fracture AND AP wire service initially sent out reports on the early evening of 9/3 identifying resigned Rep. Mark Foley as a Democrat.

    What were you Goopers saying about the MSM? Was that in contrast to … what? Your astrologer? Your navel?

  38. Red Neckersniff
    October 4, 2006 at 6:32 pm

    Hey Bob, just for your info:

    The oil companies, and oil service companies, are at 52 week LOWS.
    The stock that all Democrats love to hate, Halliburton, is at a 52 week LOW.

    As for me, I’m a BUYER!

    How naive of you to think that Congress controls the price of stocks on the exchanges! American business is the heart of our country! The core of capitalism!

    Are you a socialist, by chance? Don’t get upset, just asking. It is a fair question.

  39. close cropped grey bearded liberal
    October 4, 2006 at 6:52 pm

    Does Christine Mullholand resemble Cindy Sheehan? It’s a fact they both hate America, but I’m not sure if there’s anything more to it.

  40. Conscience of the GOP
    October 4, 2006 at 7:08 pm

    red ‘sniffer, you’re hopelessly lost in a dualistic world. If it’s not “black – white” or “red – blue,” then you’re not in the room.

    However, we agree on a few points.

    a) Janet Reno was a disaster. She was a disaster way before being tapped to head Justice. As AG she gave the self-described “patriot” movement all the legitimacy it needed.

    b) The majority of Americans are how you describe.

    As for the rest … that’s what the blog is for!

    I disagree strongly with your description of a stark and deep divide between so-called conservatives and progressives. It’s a distinction with very little difference, when you take in a larger picture. It’s a fabrication fueled by those who grasp at power, to maintain an illusion of adversarial conflict. If we truly had a multi-party electoral system in this country, I think the markers for those distinctions would be constantly shifting all over the spectrum, as they should.

    I sincerely doubt that there is a single tenet of our individual faiths which could not be tempered or moderated by direct experience, with a compassionate and loving heart.

  41. Rich from Paso
    October 4, 2006 at 8:28 pm

    NEWSFLASH!…NEWSFLASH!…NEWSFLASH

    Stock market continues to soar on news that the Federal Reserve may lower interest rates and that oil is at new lows.

    In a related stories, Democrats and BOB FROM SAN LUIS demand an investigation suspecting war profiteering even though the bulk of no-bid contracts were awarded prior to the Iraq War invasion.

  42. Red Neckersniff
    October 4, 2006 at 9:19 pm

    O’ Conscience: As I wander through my dualistic world, I’ll bet that someday soon, somebody will step up to the plate with a gigantic stick.

    He won’t be a ‘Crat, and he won’t be a ‘Publican, he will be an Independant. He will address each and every issue, and will take care o’ biz in a big way, not by tackling his own team. Voters will love him and the parties will not. And no he won’t be the anti Christ.

    Until that day comes, I think you are in a state of denial or wishful thinking. I think your last paragraph if I interpret it correctly makes a lot of assumptions. Men are not by nature noble creatures. That which has come to divide us has taken place over many years, and deals with the tenets of our Judeo Christian philosophies that founded our nation. Many of those are now rejected by “progressive” thinkers, and clung to by “traditional” thinkers. Look at our society, my friend.

    The state of our public ed system has deteriorated to the point of near collapse. Many, if not most, University campuses (even some high schools) are sounding boards for radical, left wing professors who spew hatred for this country. Great examples. The vast majority of the mainstream media is decidedly left wing-biased who bombard us with one sided viewpoints instead of facts.

    Many Judges in our court system are so left that they side with the rights of child molesters and rapists, to make sure they get the proper “treatment”. They tie the hands of our guardians in dealing with drug dealers and killers.

    The ACLU, a communist organization who openly defends such organizations as NAMBLA, who promote rapes of little boys, operates with impunity among us, and sometimes are even celebrated as champions of the little guy. Lawyers protect lawyers, and judges are also lawyers. We used to call them all “the bruthas”.

    Sexual perversions by both sexes have become commonplace and out in the open. Don’t believe me, go to one of my ex-favorite city’s, San Fran, and take a stroll. The AIDS epidemic is, according to statistical data, spread the most through shared i.v. drug use and male unprotected sex with males. Go figure. Gay parades are in your face aggressive displays of an agenda that most Americans do not want, yet are forced to accept as an alternative lifestyle that is taught to our children in school as normal. Straights who paraded in the same way would be jailed.

    You people squawk about the major corporations? Nike, Ford, even Walmart give MILLIONS to the gay/lesbian/transgender associations who ask for it, so they can say they are “diversified”…yet there are MILLIONS of worthy causes that most faith-based organizations support that actually SAVE LIVES, and they don’t get a dime from these corporations…not diversified enough I guess. Maybe if they all wore feather boas to church…

    The left wants to put my tax dollars into every entitlement program that comes down the pike. Let me ask you. Of all the ga-billions of dollars of tax money that has poured into ghettos, has that put a dent into the 70 plus percent of males growing up there without a father? Produced any more Phd’s? No. Reduced crime? No.

    Yeah, there is definitely a divide, pard. But, I would like to say we do have compassionate hearts of like kind. I can think of much, as a country and as individuals.

  43. Conscience of the GOP
    October 4, 2006 at 10:35 pm

    Was that strawberry Cool-Aid? (maybe there was too much fluoride in that tap water you used)

    That was a lot of energy you expended to define yourself. How did it make you feel? Righteous?

    Good.

    You made my point.

  44. Rich from Paso
    October 4, 2006 at 11:53 pm

    Conscience, you should start facing the reality that the Republicans will retain BOTH houses of Congress. Prepare yourself for a full-speed ahead conservative agenda. How can you possibily expect to win anything when your platform is a vacuum? There is nothing there except “we’re not Bush”. The Foley issue or any other products of the Clinton Dirty Tricks machine churs out will not keep Republicans from kicking Democrat ass this November.

    But the real problem with our current political system is that both parties exist to gather personal power and patronage for themselves; to hell with the country as a whole as far as they are concern. There is NO VISION of where this nation needs to go and there is no plan to get there.

  45. Red Neckersniff
    October 5, 2006 at 2:45 am

    In between chores, Conscience, took a break to check the ol’ blog, and it appears I may have hit a nerve. ‘Twas not my intent, mind you, and you certainly do not have to try and kill the messenger. I am merely delivering some factual data, sir with a conservative opinion attached. I don’t consider myself above you, or anyone else. ANYONE.

    If you see things differently, that’s what blogs are for, right? But that doesn’t mean that I drink Kool Aid…where’d you get that term anyhow, O’Reilly? not fair.

    And quit askin’ me questions and then answerin’ me with you sayin, “Good”, like I said, “YEAH!” when really I didn’t EVEN SAY ANYTHING. not fair.

    And quit sayin’ I made your point when I wasn’t tryin’ to make a point for you…I was makin’ a point for ME. no fair.

    so quit poutin. Republicans Rule.

  46. JerryDinAZ
    October 5, 2006 at 2:37 pm

    TRED LIGHTLY
    DEMOCNATS & LIBOCRATS!

    BACKFIRE: verb
    –verb (used without object)
    1. (of an internal-combustion engine) to have a loud, premature explosion in the intake manifold.
    2. to bring a result opposite to that which was planned or expected: The plot backfired.
    3. to start a fire deliberately in order to check a forest or prairie fire by creating a barren area in advance of it.
    4. (in an internal-combustion engine) premature ignition of fuel in the intake manifold.
    5. an explosion coming out of the breech of a firearm.
    6. a fire started intentionally to check the advance of a forest or prairie fire.

    —Synonyms 2. miscarry, boomerang; flop(aka John Kerry), bomb, wash out.

  47. JerryDinAZ
    October 5, 2006 at 3:55 pm

    IF THERE IS ANY DOUBT ABOUT THE DEMOCRATS’ LACK OF VISION, CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING EXCHANGE BETWEEN DNC CHAIRMAN DEAN AND TIM RUSSERT ON A RECENT EDITION OF MEET THE PRESS:

    RUSSERT: BUT THOSE ARE WORDS THAT WILL APPEAL TO PEOPLE. BUT WHEN YOU GO BEHIND THEM…FOR EXAMPLE, WHAT IS THE DEMOCRATIC POSITION ON IRAQ? SHOULD WE WITHDRAW TROOPS NOW? WHAT DO THE DEMOCRATS STAND FOR?

    DEAN: TIM, FIRST OF ALL, WE DON’T CONTROL THE HOUSE, THE SENATE, OR THE WHITE HOUSE. WE HAVE PLENTY OF TIME TO SHOW AMERICANS WHAT OUR AGENDA IS AND WE WILL, LONG BEFORE THE ’06 ELECTIONS.

    RUSSERT: BUT THERE’S NO DEMOCRATIC PLAN ON SOCIAL SECURITY. THERE’S NO DEMOCRATIC PLAN ON THE DEFICIT PROBLEM. THERE’S NO SPECIFICS.

    DEAN: RIGHT NOW IT’S NOT OUR JOB TO GIVE OUT SPECIFICS. WE HAVE NO CONTROL IN THE HOUSE. WE HAVE NO CONTROL IN THE SENATE. IT’S OUR JOB TO STOP THIS ADMINISTRATION, THIS CORRUPT AND INCOMPETENT ADMINISTRATION, FROM DOING MORE DAMAGE TO AMERICA. AND THAT’S WHAT WE’RE GOING TO DO.

    RUSSERT: BUT IS IT ENOUGH FOR YOU TO SAY TO THE COUNTRY, “TRUST US, THE OTHER GUY’S NO GOOD. WE’LL DO BETTER, BUT WE’RE NOT GOING TO TELL YOU SPECIFICALLY HOW.”

    DEAN: WE WILL. WHEN THE TIME COMES, WE WILL DO THAT.

    RUSSERT: WHEN’S THE TIME GOING TO COME?

    DEAN: THE TIME IS FAST APPROACHING.

    RUSSERT: THIS YEAR?

    DEAN: IN 2006.

    IS THERE ANY DOUBT IN ANY THINKING AMERICAN’S MIND THAT THIS CRAP HAS BEEN ORCHESTRATED SINCE THE BEGINNING? THESE CHEAP DEMOCANT DIRTY TRICKS IS THE ONLY THING THEY HAVE IN THEIR ARSENAL! NO PLAN ON ANY MAJOR ISSUE EXCEPT TO HATE BUSH.

  48. Rich from Paso
    October 5, 2006 at 6:26 pm

    The great sucking sound is not jobs going to Mexico, it’s the vacuum the Democrat Party’s lack of any plan or vision is creating in Washington. At least if you are going to vote against Republicans, you know why. No voter has ANY reason to vote FOR Democrats because they don’t stand for anything, they obstruct as a means of trying to keep the majority party down, they attack and smear to try to keep Repuclican voters away from the polls and they either lack the courage or the intellect to formulate an agenda and present that agenda as an alternative to the well-known Republican agenda. Voters do have reasons to vote FOR Republicans, to wit: lower taxes, booming stock market, no attacks on American soil since 9/11, home onwnership the highest its ever been, etc etc. Cue Bob to come on the blog and be negative and try to explain away all of the bounty that this country has enjoyed since this country weathered the storm of 9/11. All you liberals need to listen to me when I tell you this: nature abhors a vacuum and so voters should abhor the Democratic Party — they represent EVERYTHING that is wrong with politics today.

  49. poo in los osos
    October 5, 2006 at 6:33 pm

    why does bush not care about the border? it must be because big companys have payed the correct officals to sell the average american down the road. Dems, Repubs, all corrupt to the bone. toss them all out!

  50. JerryDinAZ
    October 5, 2006 at 7:23 pm

    MORE DEMOCRAT SNEAKY TRICKS!

    RE: THE CHILD CUSTODY PROTECTION ACT (CCPA) AND POLITICAL CHICANERY!

    RECENTLY, THE CHILD CUSTODY PROTECTION ACT PASSED THE SENATE BY A MARGIN OF 65-34. YET MINUTES AFTER THE BILL PASSED THE SENATE, SENATOR “DICK” DURBIN FOUND A MEANS TO EFFECTIVELY OBSTRUCT THIS BILL, WHICH HAD OVERWHELMINGLY PASSED BOTH HOUSES OF CONGRESS.
    DICK DURBIN USED AN UNDER-HANDED PARLIAMENTARY TACTIC AND RAISED AN OBJECTION TO SENDING THE BILL TO CONFERENCE. BUT WHAT IS EVEN MORE AMAZING IS THAT THE 14 DEMOCRATS WHO HAD VOTED IN FAVOR OF THIS BILL MINUTES BEFORE WENT STRANGELY SILENT IN RESPONSE TO THE DURBIN OBSTRUCTION.
    AND THESE 14 DEMOCRATS WHO INITIALLY VOTED IN FAVOR OF CCPA CAN NOW GO BACK TO THEIR RED STATES AND TELL THEIR PRO-LIFE CONSTITUENTS, “HEY, I VOTED FOR CCPA. DON’T BLAME ME.”
    DID THESE 14 DEMOCANTS TAKE A HINT FROM THE LAST IDIOT THEY RAN FOR PRESIDENT?
    QUOTE: JOHN KERRY: I ACTUALLY DID VOTE FOR THE 87 BILLION DOLLARS BEFORE I VOTED AGAINST IT.

    DO YOU HONESTLY BELIEVE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE FOOLED BY THIS SILENCE?
    HERE IS WHAT THE PLANNED PARENTHOOD SAID ABOUT THIS BILL…(FIRST GO GET SOMETHING TO VOMIT IN!)
    STEPHENIE FOSTER, PLANNED PARENTHOOD’S VICE PRESIDENT OF PUBLIC POLICY SAYS:
    “WE ALL WANT OUR DAUGHTERS TO COME TO US, BUT WHAT IS MOST IMPORTANT IS THAT THEY ARE SAFE. FORBIDDING YOUNG PEOPLE FROM TURNING TO TRUSTED FAMILY MEMBERS WHEN THEY ARE IN CRISIS DOES NOT PREVENT UNINTENDED PREGNANCY AND THE NEED FOR ABORTION. PARENTS NEED SUPPORT TO KEEP THEIR KIDS HEALTHY AND SAFE — NOT LAWS THAT CRIMINALIZE FAMILY MEMBERS FOR HELPING TEENS GET ACCESS TO GOOD MEDICAL CARE. WE BELIEVE THAT WHEN A FAMILY IS FACING A DIFFICULT SITUATION, THE LAST THING THAT FAMILY NEEDS IS FOR ELECTED OFFICIALS TO INTERFERE IN THEIR ABILITY TO MAKE HEALTH CARE DECISIONS.”

  51. JerryDinAZ
    October 5, 2006 at 8:21 pm

    OK DEMOCANTS! SINCE YOU WILL NOT GIVE US YOUR PARTY’S PLAN FOR IRAQ, NOR WILL POST YOUR PERSONAL PLANS HOW BOUT THIS?
    WHAT PART OF THE WAR ON TERROR DO YOU SUPPORT?
    SO FAR WE KNOW THIS:
    1. DEMOCANTS OPPOSE THE NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY LISTENING TO PEOPLE WHO ARE CALLING SPECIFIC PHONE NUMBERS FOUND ON AL-QAIDA CELL PHONES AND COMPUTERS. (A FEDERAL JUDGE APPOINTED BY JIMMY CARTER RULED THE NSA PROGRAM TO SURVEYS PHONE CALLS TO AL-QAIDA MEMBERS IN OTHER COUNTIES UNCONSTITUTIONAL.)
    2. LIBOCRATS OPPOSE THE DETAINMENT OF TALIBAN AND AL-QAIDA SOLDIERS AT OUR MILITARY BASE IN GUANTANAMO, CUBA. DEMOCRATS SUCH AS REP. JANE HARMAN, THE RANKING DEMOCRAT ON THE HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE, HAVE CALLED FOR GUANTANAMO TO BE SHUT DOWN. (DEMOCRATIC SEN. “DICK” DURBIN HAS COMPARED GUANTANAMO TO NAZI CONCENTRATION CAMPS AND SOVIET GULAGS)
    3. DEFEATOCATS OPPOSE THE PATRIOT ACT, THE MOST IMPORTANT PIECE OF LEGISLATION PASSED SINCE 9/11, DESIGNED TO MAKE THE UNITED STATES LESS OF A THEME PARK FOR WOULD-BE TERRORISTS. (IN 2004, SEN. JOHN KERRY — THE MAN THEY WANTED TO BE PRESIDENT — CALLED THE PATRIOT ACT “AN ASSAULT ON OUR BASIC RIGHTS.”)
    4. SORROSACRATS OPPOSE PROFILING MUSLIMS AT AIRPORTS. (THEY OPPOSE EVERY BUST OF A TERRORIST CELL, SNEERING THAT THE CELLS IN LACKAWANNA, NEW YORK CITY, MIAMI, CHICAGO AND LONDON WEREN’T A REAL THREAT LIKE, SAY, A NONDENOMINATIONAL PRAYER BEFORE A HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL GAME. NOW THAT’S A THREAT.)
    ONCE AGAIN…
    WHAT PART OF THE WAR ON TERROR DO YOU SUPPORT?
    WHAT IS YOUR PLAN FOR THE WAR ON TERROR?

  52. JerryDinAZ
    October 5, 2006 at 8:43 pm

    FOR THOSE THAT HAVE FORGOTTON…HERE IS THE TERROR WE ARE AT WAR AGAINST:

    1. NOVEMBER 1979: MUSLIM EXTREMISTS (IRANIAN VARIETY) SEIZED THE U.S. EMBASSY IN IRAN AND HELD 52 AMERICAN HOSTAGES FOR 444 DAYS, FOLLOWING DEMOCRAT JIMMY CARTER’S MASTERFUL FOREIGN POLICY GRANTING ISLAMIC FANATICISM ITS FIRST REAL FOOTHOLD IN THE MIDDLE EAST.

    2. 1982: MUSLIM EXTREMISTS (MOSTLY HEZBOLLAH) BEGAN A NEARLY DECADE-LONG HABIT OF TAKING AMERICANS AND EUROPEANS HOSTAGE IN LEBANON, KILLING WILLIAM BUCKLEY AND HOLDING TERRY ANDERSON FOR 6 1/2 YEARS.

    3. APRIL 1983: MUSLIM EXTREMISTS (ISLAMIC JIHAD OR POSSIBLY HEZBOLLAH) BOMBED THE U.S. EMBASSY IN BEIRUT, KILLING 16 AMERICANS.

    4. OCTOBER 1983: MUSLIM EXTREMISTS (HEZBOLLAH) BLEW UP THE U.S. MARINE BARRACKS AT THE BEIRUT AIRPORT, KILLING 241 MARINES.

    5. DECEMBER 1983: MUSLIM EXTREMISTS (AL-DAWA) BLEW UP THE U.S. EMBASSY IN KUWAIT, KILLING FIVE AND INJURING 80.

    6. SEPTEMBER 1984: MUSLIM EXTREMISTS (HEZBOLLAH) EXPLODED A TRUCK BOMB AT THE U.S. EMBASSY ANNEX IN BEIRUT, KILLING 24 PEOPLE, INCLUDING TWO U.S. SERVICEMEN.

    7. DECEMBER 1984: MUSLIM EXTREMISTS (PROBABLY HEZBOLLAH) HIJACKED A KUWAIT AIRWAYS AIRPLANE, LANDED IN IRAN AND DEMANDED THE RELEASE OF THE 17 MEMBERS OF AL-DAWA WHO HAD BEEN ARRESTED FOR THE BOMBING OF THE U.S. EMBASSY IN KUWAIT, KILLING TWO AMERICANS BEFORE THE SIEGE WAS OVER.

    8. JUNE 14, 1985: MUSLIM EXTREMISTS (HEZBOLLAH) HIJACKED TWA FLIGHT 847 OUT OF ATHENS, DIVERTING IT TO BEIRUT, TAKING THE PASSENGERS HOSTAGE IN RETURN FOR THE RELEASE OF THE KUWAIT 17 AS WELL AS ANOTHER 700 PRISONERS HELD BY ISRAEL. WHEN THEIR DEMANDS WERE NOT MET, THE MUSLIMS SHOT U.S. NAVY DIVER ROBERT DEAN STETHEM AND DUMPED HIS BODY ON THE TARMAC.

    9. OCTOBER 1985: MUSLIM EXTREMISTS (PALESTINE LIBERATION FRONT BACKED BY LIBYA) SEIZED AN ITALIAN CRUISE SHIP, THE ACHILLE LAURO, KILLING 69-YEAR-OLD AMERICAN LEON KLINGHOFFER BY SHOOTING HIM AND THEN TOSSING HIS BODY OVERBOARD.

    10. DECEMBER 1985: MUSLIM EXTREMISTS (BACKED BY LIBYA) BOMBED AIRPORTS IN ROME AND VIENNA, KILLING 20 PEOPLE, INCLUDING FIVE AMERICANS.

    11. APRIL 1986: MUSLIM EXTREMISTS (BACKED BY LIBYA) BOMBED A DISCOTHEQUE FREQUENTED BY U.S. SERVICEMEN IN WEST BERLIN, INJURING HUNDREDS AND KILLING TWO, INCLUDING A U.S. SOLDIER.

    12. DECEMBER 1988: MUSLIM EXTREMISTS (BACKED BY LIBYA) BOMBED PAN AM FLIGHT 103 OVER LOCKERBIE, SCOTLAND, KILLING ALL 259 ON BOARD AND 11 ON THE GROUND.

    (THEN CAME AN AMAZING, HISTORIC PAUSE IN MUSLIM EXTREMISTS’ RELENTLESS WAR ON AMERICA AFTER RONALD REAGAN WON THE COLD WAR BY DOING THE OPPOSITE OF EVERYTHING RECOMMENDED BY DEMOCRATS, DEPRIVING ISLAMIC TERRORISTS OF THEIR SOVIET SPONSORS. THIS CONFUSES LIBERALS BECAUSE THEY DON’T UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT OF TERROR SPONSORS, WHETHER IT’S THE SOVIET UNION OR IRAQ.)

    13. FEBRUARY 1993: MUSLIM EXTREMISTS (AL-GAMA’A AL-ISLAMIYYA, POSSIBLY WITH INVOLVEMENT OF FRIENDLY RIVAL AL-QAIDA) SET OFF A BOMB IN THE BASEMENT OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER, KILLING SIX AND WOUNDING MORE THAN 1,000.

    14. SPRING 1993: MUSLIM EXTREMISTS (AL-GAMA’A AL-ISLAMIYYA, THE SUDANESE ISLAMIC FRONT AND AT LEAST ONE MEMBER OF HAMAS) PLOT TO BLOW UP THE LINCOLN AND HOLLAND TUNNELS, THE U.N. COMPLEX, AND THE FBI’S LOWER MANHATTAN HEADQUARTERS.

    15. NOVEMBER 1995: MUSLIM EXTREMISTS (POSSIBLY IRANIAN “PARTY OF GOD”) EXPLODE A CAR BOMB AT U.S. MILITARY HEADQUARTERS IN SAUDI ARABIA, KILLING FIVE U.S. MILITARY SERVICEMEN.

    16. JUNE 1996: MUSLIM EXTREMISTS (13 SAUDIS AND A LEBANESE MEMBER OF HEZBOLLAH, PROBABLY WITH INVOLVEMENT OF AL-QAIDA) EXPLODE A TRUCK BOMB OUTSIDE THE KHOBAR TOWERS MILITARY COMPLEX, KILLING 19 AMERICAN SERVICEMEN AND INJURING HUNDREDS.

    17. AUGUST 1998: MUSLIM EXTREMISTS (AL-QAIDA) EXPLODE TRUCK BOMBS AT U.S. EMBASSIES IN KENYA AND TANZANIA, KILLING 224 AND INJURING THOUSANDS.
    18. OCTOBER 2000: MUSLIM EXTREMISTS (AL-QAIDA) BLOW UP THE U.S. NAVY DESTROYER USS COLE, KILLING 17 U.S. SAILORS.

    19. SEPT. 11, 2001: MUSLIM EXTREMISTS (AL-QAIDA) HIJACK COMMERCIAL AIRCRAFT AND FLY PLANES INTO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER, THE PENTAGON AND A FIELD IN PENNSYLVANIA, KILLING NEARLY 3,000 AMERICANS.

    SO LIBOCRATS…WHAT IS YOUR PLAN FOR THE WAR ON TERROR?

  53. Rich from Paso
    October 5, 2006 at 8:50 pm

    Poo, you are misinformed. I have friends in the Cal Guard that are on the border today. It was Bush, not Clinton, Bush 41, Reagan, or any Congress since WWII to mandate that we should put soldiers on the border. Because of Bush’s action, fewer illegals are crossing the border, drug seizures are up and all this was done by Executive Order, not by act of Congress. When it comes to the border, Congress is following Bush’s lead.

    Jerry, Jerry, Jerry, why do you keep hounding these poor Defeatocrats for a plan on Iraq or the War on Terror? You have heard their plan, it is the deafening silence. You have felt their plan; it’s the sucking sound of their intellectual vacuum. You know that all you will hear is what they wouldn’t have done if they, not Bush, Kerry or Gore, were elected president. They have nothing to say because they have nothing to say, simple as that.

    By the way, you forgot that “Dingy” Harry Reid gloated last December, “Today, we have killed the Patriot Act”, the single most effective tool our law enforcement has in fighting the War on Terror at home. All you Retreat-and-Defeat liberals out there can wring your hands and use your sophistry to try and dismiss the fact that there have been zero attacks on American soil but it is a fact. It is a GOOD fact that Liberals are desparate for everyone to forget, hence Foley-gate. Gotta get the good news off the front page, huh?

  54. Rich from Paso
    October 6, 2006 at 12:33 am

    NEWSFLASH…NEWSFLASH…NEWSFLASH

    Mark Foley scandel is a hoax gone awry as reported in the Drudge Report.

    Question: If (and this is a big IF) this is true, will Dave and the rest of the left and left-leaning media, the Washington Times editorial staff and the entire Democratic Party offer any apologies to Mark Foley and his family for the pain and suffering this feeding frenzy has caused?

    Answer: Nope. Mark Foley’s original sin was being a Republican, straight, gay or otherwise. For that he should burn in Hell, right?

  55. JerryDinAZ
    October 6, 2006 at 1:32 am

    RICH,
    WE WILL KNOW WHEN THIS FOLLEY SCANDAL BLOWS UP THE DEMS FACES BECAUSE THERE WILL BE A NEW BOG THAT HOUR! YOU JUST WATCH!

    YOU SORROS LOVERS/BUSH HATERS ARE BEING VERY QUIET…OF COURSE WE EXPECTED NO LESS

  56. let the truth come out
    October 6, 2006 at 1:34 am

    XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX THU OCT 5 2006 2:53:48 ET XXXXX

    CLAIM: FILTHY FOLEY ONLINE CHATS WERE PAGE ‘PRANK GONE AWRY’
    **World Exclusive**
    **Must Credit the DRUDGE REPORT**

    According to two people close to former congressional page Jordan Edmund, the now famous lurid AOL Instant Message exchanges that led to the resignation of Mark Foley were part of an online prank that by mistake got into the hands of enemy political operatives, the DRUDGE REPORT can reveal.

    According to one Oklahoma source who knows the former page very well, Edmund, a conservative Republican, goaded an unwitting Foley to type embarrassing comments that were then shared with a small group of young Hill politicos. The prank went awry when the saved IM sessions got into the hands of political operatives favorable to Democrats.

    The primary source, an ally of Edmund, adamantly proclaims that the former page is not a homosexual. The prank scenario was confirmed by a second associate of Edmund. Both are fearful that their political careers will be affected if they are publicly brought into the investigation.

    The prank scenario only applies to the Edmund IM sessions and does not necessarily apply to any other exchanges between the former congressman and others.

    The news come on the heels that Edmund has hired former Timothy McVeigh attorney, Stephen Jones.

    Developing…

  57. Bob from San Luis
    October 6, 2006 at 2:25 am

    The prank scenario only applies to the Edmund IM sessions and does not necessarily apply to any other exchanges between the former congressman and others. ” Okay, so maybe the i.m. account was a hoax, maybe it wasn’t; in light of all the other accusations and new evidence coming to light, does it really matter if this one account was a hoax? As for “new” accusations, here is a link to one of the latest news items concerning the Republican “Page-Gate” scandal.
    JerryD, Rich, et. al; I don’t remember if you replied as to how “different” Rush’s “plan” was from any other plan for redeployment (I believe that all such plans are labeled as “cut and run”), and where would any significant numbers of additional troops come from. I assume that most on the right have a deep seated belief that anything the UN touches is “corrupt” or tainted somehow; if we could convince any of our allies to help bolster troop strength to do a thorough job of cleaning out insurgent strongholds and them keeping them held, there could be a possibility of really making a difference there. As petty as you like to make it sound Rich, if other countries were allowed to participate in the rebuilding efforts, maybe they would be more inclined to join the campaign in Iraq.

  58. Rich from Paso
    October 6, 2006 at 3:50 am

    Bob, “Cut and Run” (i.e. removing troops from Iraq permanently) and Rush’s plan to move all troops either into Baghdad or out to the borders are TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS!! (and yes, I’m yelling). Damn, you liberals just can’t stop spinning things , can’t you? Not every troop movement is a “cut and run”. Are you saying that I did a “cut and run” because my unit’s year was up and it was time to come home? How f’n stupid are you? Murtha and Kerry and the rest of your “retreat and defeat” liberals want us to throw in the towel in Iraq for the sole purpose of humillating Bush. Murtha wanted our troops to leave Iraq and go to Okinawa, an island that would NOT welcome one more American serviceman, what with 20,000 Marines already on the island. That’s “cut and run”. Rush wnated an either or strategy in Iraq;m either we are at the borders sealing it tight or in Baghdad kicking in every door. There is a huge difference.

    WHERE IS YOUR F%^&ING PLAN, BOB?

    So let me get this straight: you are all for foreign companies (i.e. outside Iraq and the United States) taking our tax dollars in order to build shit in Iraq so they will want to send troops to protect Iraq, but you are against U.S. companies getting those “no-bid” contracts paid for by my tax dollars? Right? Well hell’s bells, Bob, why don’t you eliminate the middle man like GEICO and just pay a bribe to the other countries of the world to send troops. That’s exactly what Iraq needs: a mercenary force of european countries to defend Iraq. I guess you forgot that has already been tried. It was called the U.N. Oil for Food program, which did prove that European countries are very good at taking bribes.

    By the way, I did respond to your insipid post.

  59. Rich from Paso
    October 6, 2006 at 3:52 am

    Also, when the Republicans not only retain the House and Senate but pick up seats, I am going to post “DEMOCRATS ARE LOSERS” in the first thread I see the next day, over and over again, so mny times so it will take you five minutes to scroll to the bottom of the page.

  60. JerryDinAZ
    October 6, 2006 at 4:45 am

    TYPICAL DEMOCANT SPIN LOGIC RICH! DON’T LET EM GET TO YA! THAT’S WHAT THEY WANT!

    THEY HAVE NO PLAN…THEY ARE GUTLESS COWARDS, THEY HATE AMERICA AND THE PRESIDENT WE ELECTED(TWICE)
    GEORGE SORROS WAS ON FOX NEWS TODAY AND THIS MAN IS CLEARLY THE MOST DANGEROUS MAN IN AMERICA, IF NOT THE WORLD! HE IS COMPLETELY INSANE BUT RICH SO THAT’S WHY THE DEMS KISS UP!

    HE AND HIS LOCK STEP CRONIES WANT TO CHANGE AMERICA. ASSISTED SUICIDES, GAY MARRIAGE, ABORTION ON DEMAND WITH NO PARENTAL NOTIFICATION, OPEN BORDERS TO ALL COUNTIES, DEMILITARIZE THE U.S. UNTILL WE ARE ALL WEAK COWARDS, AND BRING A EUROPEAN STYLE “ALLOW ALL” GOVERNMENT STYLE HERE, AND FREE HEALT CARE TO ALL, CITIZEN OR NOT. I’M SURE HE’D LIKE TO LOCK UP ALL THE CHRISTIANS AND THOSE THAT DON’T AGREE AS WELL.
    NANCY PELOSI WOULD BE HIS FIRST PRESIDENT AND THEN ALL WOULD NEED TO COME FROM FLAMING SAN FRANCISCO.

    I AM GLAD I AM A CONSTITUTIONALIST REPUBLICAN…BECAUSE I WOULD KILL MYSELF FOR LACK OF SHAME FOR KISSING SORROS’S PINKO BUTT!

    DO YOU DEMS HAVE A BRAIN? A THOUGHT? A PLAN? A SOLUTION? LONG OR SHORT TERM GOALS? HOW PATHETIC YOUR LIVES ARE TO WAKE EVERY MORNING WITH NOTHING BETTER TO DO THAN HATE OUR PRESIDENT. SAD BUT ALL TOO TRUE!

    TRY TO HAVE AN ORIGINAL THOUGHT…OR BELIEVE IS SOMETHING OTHER THAN HATE AND DESTRUCTION OF OUR TRADITIONAL AMERICAN VALUES!

    AND LASTLY…TRY TO COME UP WITH SOME PLAN OTHER THAN THAT WHICH YOU COPY-N-PASTE FROM THE HIGHEST PAID MAN IN RADIO AND A GREAT CONSERVATIVE AMERICAN…RUSH LIMBAUGH. YOU PONTIFICATING JACKANAPES & NINEYHAMMERS!

  61. Red Neckersniff
    October 6, 2006 at 7:48 am

    Wow, in my absence, things have HEATED UP A BIT! out-f’n-standing, Rich and Jerry, you conservo-cats! Sheepdogs rule!!!! couldn’t have said it better! Just stop sugar coating it, okay!!!! guys…c’mon, these are grown ups, they can take it on the chin!. Jerry, I also saw Soros tonight on the tube. He is indeed the hero of the left, and he makes Michael Moore look like a cub scout, and the ACLU like kindergartners!
    To Poo of Los Osos: After Communist George’s appearance, one of the guys who founded the “Minutemen” border watchers tried to give a speech at Columbia University…he was shouted down by a riotous crowd of radical left wing students who wouldn’t let him even give his presentation (so tolerant, those left wing students are,to hear all sides). Like I previously posted, our Universities are breeding grounds for radical hate-America dirtbags, who are indoctrinated by our best and brightest professors (wolves in sheeps clothing).

    We are starting to see a resurgence of this type of BS not seen since the 60’s (you guys were probably just a gleem in your dad’s eye) when the student groups got inflamed first over the war, then over anything that came out of Congress, then over anything they thought was “establishment” i.e. whatever was conservative…close to home, they burned the B of A (supposedly because B of A was a big money contractor to the war enterprise – that would be the big Haliburton today!) in Isla Vista to the ground…our Sherirff’s Dept responded to assist SBSO, along with several other agencies. Our TAC Team, as they were called then, 12 guys and one Sergeant, marched through the middle of the student quad at noon to take possession of the admin building on campus. A couple thousand hippies parted like the red sea, and our guys made their rep…’mazing what a little command presence will do, eh? ‘Course, we must remember that they ARE college students, they ARE in Santa Barb, and they ARE under the influence of the heathen devil weed.
    I am being long winded. I think we are seeing a return to these things because the clowns we dealt with back then are now the professors (and the Senators). They are not just encouraging dissent, which we can agree is healthy, they are encouraging revolt. The same signs are present.
    Hatred for our laws, our heritage, our authority figures, our lawmakers.
    Good news is they failed then, and they, along with their older generation cheer leaders this time around, will fail again. They are, unfortunately for them, weak sisters, not built or prepared for any type of event that would require taking on those folks who would rather just kick their ass than talk to them. Sorry, folks, no tea party for you. You’ll get drowned in the harbor. Adios

  62. JerryDinAZ
    October 6, 2006 at 3:54 pm

    THE DEAFENING SILENCE OF THE LIBOCANTS OR SHOULD I SAY SECULAR PROGRESSIVES, PROVES THAT THEY HAVE NOT LOST THE SOUL OF TEIR PARTY…THEY HAVE SOLD IT TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER!
    THESE SELF PROFESSED “SORROITES” HAVE GIVEN UP ON THE AMERICA WE BUILT TO BE THE GREATEST AND MOST HONORABLE NATION IN THE WORLD IN HOPES TO TEAR ALL THAT DOWN AND CHANGE AMERICA INTO AN IMMORALLY TOLERANT NATION OF RESIGNATION AND DEFEAT.
    ALTHOUGH THE 2000 ELECTION WAS CLOSE, BUSH WON BY A PROCESS INCEPTED BY OUR GREAT FOUNDING FATHERS. HOWEVER…IN 2004 BUSH WON AGAIN BY RECEIVING MORE VOTES THAN ANY OTHER CANDIDATE IN HISTORY…WINNING BY MORE THAN 4,000,000,000 VOTES! THE DEMOCANTS HAVE NEVER GOTTEN OVER THIS LOSS AND THE FAILURE OF THEIR PARTY TO REACH THE MAINSTREAM TRADITIONAL AMERICAN. AS WE APPROACH ANOTHER ELECTION IT IS CLEAR AGAIN THAT THE PARTY OF FDR IS GONE AND THE PARTY OF HATE AND DESTRUCTION, AND COWARDICE HAS TAKEN IT’S PLACE.
    POLLS SHOW A RISE IN ACCEPTANCE OF THE REPUBLICAN PLANS FOR AMERICA NOW AND IN THE FUTURE. REGARDLESS OF YOUR PARTY AFFILIATION THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT AMERICANS HAVE BECOME MORE AND MORE CONSERVATIVE OVER THE PAST 4 YEARS BECAUSE THE REPUBLICANS PLAN RESONATES WITH THE VAST MAJORITY OF TRADITIONAL LOYAL AMERICANS.
    FRANKLY, I’M CONFUSED BY WHAT HAPPENED. DESPITE THE REVELATIONS ABOUT THE PRE-9/11 INTELLIGENCE, THE QUESTIONABLE WAR IN IRAQ, MICHAEL MOORE’S VALIANT EFFORTS TO RALLY PEOPLE BEHIND HIS BLOATED CARCASS, INCREDIBLY STRONG DISTASTE FOR THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION, AND A NUMBER OF POLLS THAT SEEM TO INDICATE OTHERWISE, THIS COUNTRY IS LESS LIBERAL THAN IT ONCE WAS. FOR LACK OF A BETTER REASON I BLAME JANET JACKSON’S NIPPLE.
    THE LOGICAL THING FOR THE DEMOCRATS TO DO IN AN EFFORT TO REGAIN SOME GROUND WOULD BE TO MAKE AMENDS AND SLOWLY MIGRATE THEIR PLATFORM TOWARD THE MIDDLE.
    CLEARLY, BEING TOO EXTREME IS NOT GOING TO WIN THEM ANY FAVOR, AS THEY MISTAKENLY THOUGHT THE PEOPLE OF THIS COUNTRY DISLIKED BUSH ENOUGH TO VOTE FOR A SOMEWHAT RADICAL CHANGE. THIS TIME, THEY SHOULD LEARN A LESSON, AND THAT LESSON IS “EVERYTHING IN MODERATION.”
    ONLY THE PARTY IN POWER HAS THE LUXURY OF POSITIONING THEMSELVES AT THE MORE EXTREME ENDS OF THEIR PLATFORM. THE DEMOCRATS HAVE LONG SINCE LOST THIS LUXURY, AND THE PARTY, ITS PLATFORM AND ITS KEY PLAYERS NEED TO BE RE-EVALUATED SO THAT THEY’LL BE ABLE TO COMPETE WITH THE REPUBLICANS AT A NATIONAL LEVEL AGAIN.
    THAT’S WHAT IS BLOWING MY MIND. THE ENTIRE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS UNREPENTANT AND BITTER. FOR EXAMPLE, THERE IS A WEB SITE, http://WWW.SORRYEVERYBODY.COM, WHERE AMERICANS WHO DID NOT VOTE FOR BUSH APOLOGIZE TO THE REST OF THE WORLD FOR HIS ELECTION.
    IN THE DAYS FOLLOWING THE 2004 ELECTION, MANY SAID, “THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN. DAMN THEM,” OR SOME PITHIER VARIATION FROM MY LIBERAL FRIENDS. WHILE I CAN UNDERSTAND THE ANGUISH OVER THE FACE-SLAPPING LIBERALS GOT AND APPARENTLY WEREN’T EXPECTING IT’S TIME TO SUCK IT UP AND “MOVE ON”. (NO PUN INTENDED)
    THIS HAS NOT HAPPENED. INSTEAD, THE FINGER-POINTING AND BLAME-SHIRKING CONTINUES. IT SEEMS HIGHLY ILLOGICAL TO ME TO INSULT AND ALIENATE THE MAJORITY OF THE VOTERS WHO VOTED AGAINST YOUR PARTY. YET THEY CONTINUE THAT TACTIC TODAY!
    I FIND THIS PARTICULARLY INTERESTING, BECAUSE A HUGE NUMBER OF VOTERS, INCLUDING MYSELF, ARE WILLING TO GO EITHER WAY. BY INSULTING THE SWING VOTERS WHO ARE CRITICAL TO WINNING ANY NATIONAL ELECTION, THE DEMOCRATS ARE SETTING THEMSELVES UP FOR, YET ANOTHER, A BIG COLLAPSE.
    HOPEFULLY ALL THE BAD BLOOD BEING LET BY THE DEMOCRATS WILL SCAB OVER AND THEY WILL BE ABLE TO REGROUP, REORGANIZE AND RE-EVALUATE WHAT IT TAKES TO WIN. SPEWING VITRIOL AND TAKING EXTREME POSTURES IS NOT THE WAY TO DO IT.
    IN MANY WAYS, POLITICS IS A GAME, AND IN 2004, THE DEMOCRATS GOT SPANKED! WHAT WILL THEY DO WHEN THAT HAPPENS AGAIN ON NOVEMBER 7TH?

  63. Bob from San Luis
    October 6, 2006 at 5:36 pm

    JerryD: Are you off your meds? Is your life insurance paid up to take care of your wife if you have a heart attack? My point here is that you comment here with such rancor that it can not be good for your health. Perhaps you need to get down to the pistol range and shoot something to relax?
    I went to the Fox news site and watched the video of George Soros being interviewed; you and I see things in a very different manner. Mr. Soros was well spoken, he explained away comments that were attributed to him (he repudiates the claim that he called President Bush a nazi), and he remained polite until Neil Cavuto brought up Bill O’Reilly’s tactics and comments. He addressed the insinuation that he doesn’t pay taxes, and admitted that some of the 527 groups he contributes to do things out of his realm of control. I was aware that he was not born here and that he lived under both nazi and communist rule. What I learned from the interview is that he funds or contributes to groups in other countries that are attempting to establish democratic ideals for the citizens of those countries. The hate and vitriol directed towards George Soros by the right would be amusing if it weren’t so pathetically misplaced; he is an American success story, someone who has played by the rules, gotten very rich in a manner that didn’t require any wars or invasions or large scale suffering and he has been possibly overly generous to groups he believes are attempting to do something for the good of the country. Do I respect him? Sure, Do I kiss his butt? Jerry, where the hell do you come up with this stuff? A good deal of your assertions are beyond the pale and when you start ranting on about how evil or spineless the Democrats are, I for one believe that you are projecting, that is, for what ever reason you have, all of what you accuse those who don’t think and believe like you do is exactly what you feel guilty about. I am sure that there are very good shrinks in Phoenix, you would benefit greatly by looking for one to help you get over what ever it is that causes you to be so venomous. Good luck with that.
    As for the voting public and our two last presidential elections; there is still a divide between those on the right and the left as to the “truth” about the 2000 election. Many on the left still believe that Al Gore received more votes than George W. Bush, and when you say that the election was decided by a process that is as old as the country is, my question is how many other presidential elections were decided by a 5 to 4 vote in the Supreme Court? Zero, it never happened before, and even the Supreme Court wrote that their decision was not be used as a precedent, that their decision was a one-time only situation that could never be used as an example in the future.
    As for the 2004 vote, as with 2000 vote, why was there such an effort by the right to suppress the vote? The right uses the specter of “voter fraud” as a rallying cry to justify all of the dirty tricks in the book as they intimidate voters, attempt to rig elections by making sure that heavily registered Democratic areas don’t have enough voting machines so that the lines in some areas are 5 or 6 or even 8 hours long to wait to cast a ballot. There is no hesitation about having a state’s Secretary of State who is in charge of running the election in that state be in charge of their party’s statewide campaign; there is no recognition that that could lead to a taint of conflict of interest by the right, when it is their party doing that. In 2004 you had counties in Ohio counting the vote in secret with no oversight claiming that there was a “terrorist threat” that they were protecting themselves from. You all like to complain about the money that George Soros spends, but the Republicans spend more on campaigns, featuring more negative campaign ads and using tactics like push-polls to implement “whisper campaigns” like was done to John McCain in Virginia where is was rumored that he had fathered a black child. Last but by far not least, there are the very questionable “electronic” voting machines that have no paper trail, that can be hacked and have no evidence left behind that they were hacked, built and maintained by companies whose CEO’s not only admit to voting Republican, but one of those companies even vowed to “deliver the vote for George W. Bush” leaving a very questionable area of impartiality open for debate. I think that it is great that Jerry and Rich encourage everyone to get out and vote, and I join you in that encouragement. I think it would shock the politicians to a stark reality if we had a record turnout for these mid-term elections, and wouldn’t it be great to see 70 or 80 percent of those who can actually go to the polls. If the political leaders think we are paying attention, they then should feel compelled to do the right thing.

  64. Rev. Falwell
    October 6, 2006 at 6:03 pm

    Looks like Jerryd is in a “State of Denial”.

  65. Brett
    October 7, 2006 at 2:56 am

    JERRY YOU SHOULD HAVE WATCHED BILL MOYERS “CAPITAL CRIMES” PROGRAM LAST NIGHT ON THE ABRAMOFF AND DELAY LOBBYING MACHINE. YOUR PARTY IS AS CORRUPT AS IT COMES. I’M CERTAIN YOU WILL JUST DISMISS THE PROGRAM AS LIBERAL PROPAGANDA. YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN QUITE AT HOME IN NAZI GERMANY. JOSEPH GOEBBELS WOULD HAVE LOVED YOU.
    http://www.pbs.org/moyers/moyersonamerica/capitol/index.html

    HERE IS SOME INFORMATION ON YOUR HERO. http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/goebmain.htm

  66. JerryDinAZ
    October 7, 2006 at 4:50 am

    BRENT
    YOU MAKE ME LAUGH! WHO STILL WATCHES PBS? (Pure Bull Shit) OH MY GOD! CONGRESS IS FAST TRACKING THE END TO THEIR FUNDING! IT’S A DEAD ENTITY…MOVE ON BRENT! (NO PUN INTENDED)

    note: AS FOR THE FEW DECENT SHOWS ON PBS, I’M SURE FOX WILL PICK EM UP! HELL! THEY DOMINATE EVERYTHING ELSE…WHY NOT!

  67. Rich from Paso
    October 7, 2006 at 6:08 pm

    Did you all know that George Soros made his initial money while growing up in Hugary during WWII. His father gave his Jewish family false identification and pretended not to be Jewish so he could hide from the Nazis and steal the possessions of those Jews that were killed and expelled. Young George Soros helped him. George Soros learned his ethics from a man who was a ghoul for the Nazis in Hungary, which explains why he feels free to do what he does.

  68. Anonymous
    October 8, 2006 at 12:47 am

    Rich, do you know how to use the internet?. Do some research on Soros and then post the corrected information about his involvement in confiscating property from Jews in WWII. You’re only half right.

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