Home > Uncategorized > More News from Iraq that Rich Can Dismiss

More News from Iraq that Rich Can Dismiss

Our friend Rich up in Paso Robles is sure adamant in his defense of all things Iraq. Heck, even Dick Cheney said just last month that “We’ve turned the corner in Iraq.”

But go to any newspaper site and you can pick an article at random that contradicts such a rosy outlook. This is from Wednesday morning’s N.Y. Times. Let me just highlight the opening paragraphs:

“Wave of Violence in Baghdad Puts 3-Day Death Toll Past 100

By KIRK SEMPLE
BAGHDAD, Iraq, July 11 — More than 50 people were killed in Baghdad on Tuesday in violence that included a double suicide bombing near busy entrances to the fortified Green Zone, scattered shootings, mortar attacks, a series of car bombs and the ambush of a bus with Shiite mourners returning from a burial.

Tuesday’s killings, many of them apparently carried out with sectarian vengeance, raised the three-day death toll in the capital alone to well over 100, magnified the daunting challenges facing the new government and deepened a sense of dread among Iraqis.

Many of the attacks, particularly those in neighborhoods primarily populated by one religious group or another, bore the hallmarks of sectarian militias, both Sunni Arab and Shiite. Militias now appear to be dictating the ebb and flow of life in Iraq, and have left the new government of Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki and his American counterparts scrambling to come up with a military and political strategy to combat them.”

Rich, my friend, here’s the question: When does it get better? When do things start turning around? You can grab other headlines raising similar concerns: Bush loses in the Supreme Court. Close allies back away on Iraq. Lieberman in trouble in Connecticut. Iraqis in uproar over civilian murders. Civilian death toll over 50,000, etc.

But let’s not blame this on so-called liberal media spin or dismiss it by saying people are killed in the U.S. all the time. Iraq is falling apart, day by day. It will only get worse.

Rich?

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  1. Kirk In SLO
    July 12, 2006 at 2:45 pm

    I’m not Rich, and I don’t know nearly as much about the Iraq war as he does, but I have a question.

    If the war is “wrong” and we never should have gone there, what is the right solution to dealing with the global war on terror?

    I’m not looking for the “Bush lied, troops died” sound bites, but some honest to goodness strategy.

    Iraq was funding terrorists. They were in violation of UN resolutions. They shot at our planes patroling the no fly zones. They participated in genocide. Intelligence from numerous nations (incorrectly) concluded that they had WMDs.

    So what should we have done?

    I know some would say that we should have waited until we could build a global consensus. How long would that take? There are some nations and some people that won’t commit no matter how severe the threat gets. What then?

    Do we wait until they launch a missle? Until a city in the US blows up? I’m just curious what the final straw would have been.

    Diplomacy is important, but sometimes it doesn’t work. If a bully is yelling at you, you can try to deescalate. But when he gets to the point where he’s punching you in the nose, it’s time for action.

  2. Rich from Paso
    July 12, 2006 at 3:17 pm

    Dave, I am not a defender of all things Iraq. I said on your show that they should have waited for the 4th ID to get to Kuwait before attakcing in order to “mop up” after the front lines moved through an area to protect the inrastructure and eliminate stragglers. That said, we are on a path and the further down the path you go, the fewer options you have to choose from. We have been in Iraq for almost three and a half years. The “new direction” the Left and the Liberals in this country want will absolutely lead to failure in Iraq and the deaths of hundreds of thousands of more Iraqis in the genuine civil war that will follow an abrupt pull out by the US. I guaran-damn-tee that will happen if will do what your idiot hero Jack Murtha wants (pull out to Okinawa? Are we really sure he served in the military because he sounds like a freaking idiot every time Tim Russert has him on his show. Please, please please nominate him for VP). Progress has been made, it is undeniable and irrefutable. Al-Maliki is his own man standing up for his country. The Sunnis are participating again in the parliment. I agree that the crimes committed by our soldiers are heinous and must be punished. But that is no reason to leave Iraq. Yes, the civil death toll continues to rise. That responsibility rests fully on the shoulders of the insurgents and the al Qaeda terrorists. Dave, are YOU so jaded and so Ameri-centric that you would allow that country to degenerate into a full-fledged civil war. The terrorists need people like you and Bob and Santa Maria Bill to take their message to the AMerican people of doom and defeat. Their message is failing in Iraq because there is no mass exodus of Iraqi refugees into Turkey or Jordan. The recruitment level per capita is higher in Iraq than it is in the US and THEY are the ones living through this war. Iraq is tough, there is no denying that, but it is not unwinable. The United States is the only glue keeping Iraq moving forward and without the backing of the United States, the Al-Maliki government will fail because the Jihadists will swarm on Iraqlike locusts. The Jihadists and Al Qaeda need Iraq to be the center of their new Caliphate in order to spread their murderous ideology and terrorism to the rest of the world. The plan I outlined in my post on more “experts” saying we are losing the war in Iraq is more than likely to come to pass. My Iraqi friends are the true experts and they tell me over and over: Thank you, United States for your sacrifice to free our people. Iraq has always been a difficult place but the good people of Iraq will prevail. We have no choice but to stay the course… unless you are comfortable with another 350,000 Iraqis that will die in the following civil war.

    Dave, why do you continue to quote that treasonous birdcage liner of a newspaper, the New York Times? They do not have America’s or the soldier in the field best interest at heart. The NYT has developed a habit of exposing every program the Bush Administration is using on the fight against terrorists. They can’t help themselves; it’s become a sickness with them. They are not the experts they claim to be. Their ancedotal prattling does not reflect the true sentiments on the Iraqi street. Hamid Karzi told Wolf Blitzer that the press corps would get a better idea of what is happening in Afghanistan if they would leave Kabul and ACTUALLY TALK TO SOME AFGHANIS!!! The same problem exists in Iraq. Why did you have an article to post on the sufferings of the US embassy staff in Baghdad? Because the NYT reporters are too chickenshit to leave the Green Zone and talk to real Iraqis making a median income in Baghdad. Trust me, the military would escort them wherever they wanted to go. Seen it too many times in Ramadi to deny it. When there are reporters brave enough to leave the safe confines of the Green Zone, they do stupid stuff like try to get a “head shot” in a moving vehicle in the case of Bob Woodruff. I saw one reporterette on 60 minutes last week walking through the streets of Tel Afar with LTC McMaster with her helmet in her hand!!! I don’t trust the NYT or the rest of the Anti-American media that WANTS me, no, NEEDS me to be down on Iraq and believe it will fail. You’re right, Dave, it’s not spin, it’s a campaign to oust Republicans in general and Conservatives specifically from public office everywhere. Are there lots of civilian deaths in Iraq? Asked and answered. The Daily Kos whack jobs on the anti-Bush, anti-war anti-American Left are against Joe Liberman because he went out and talked to the Iraqis and got to know them. Because of that he has a persepctive the pinheads on the radical Left cannot and will not even try to understand. So much for the Democratic Party being a “party of inclusion”. The Bush Adminstration “lost” in the Supreme Court? The adminstration was treating the detainees according to the Geneva Convention even though the detainees are not nor have they ever been a party recognized by the Geneva Convention. More judicial overreach, so what! G’itmo is still open for business and Congress will give Bush the authority he already has (assuming the Supreme Court recognizes their own precident of the 1943 German sabotour case {BTW, since the Supreme Court crapped all over their own precedent, I think that has opened the Pandora’s box and we should have any abortion case brought before the Supreme Court NOW and see what kind of shit-fit the left would have when there is a five-four decision striking down Roe v. Wade and sending it back to the states}). I sum up the “set backs” to being no more than bad weather in a tactical situation– it is inconvientent but will not keep us from reaching our objective.

    When will it get better in Iraq, Dave? When you stop complaining about the little things and start looking OBJECTIVELY at what is going on there. Yes, I said it, you’ve lost your objectivity on the situation. I know you’ll make the same counter-claim, but I have been there, you haven’t. I spent a year there, you’ve spent three years reading about it. Does that make me smarter than you? No, but it does provide me with perspectives you will never get from your beloved New York Times Op-Ed page.

    Here is some summer reading for you all to do:

    The Real Iraq (reposting)
    Death Squads and Terrorist attacking civilians

    Progress comes to Fallujah

    JoeConmentum; Dems need a soul

    The Left is betting on defeat

    Only SIX Dem Senators voted to pull out of Iraq

    THe NYT’s Leaks Must be investigated; Plame’s was

    Have a cheerful day… if you’re able.

  3. Rich from Paso
    July 12, 2006 at 3:22 pm

    Kirk asks the Anti-War, Anti-Bush Left and Liberals all of the right questions. And don’t tell me that Saddam was contained because when the son of the Secretary-General if the UN is selling Saddam’s oil for him, he isn’t contained. If you are for no action, then you condone through your inaction the 350,000 deaths in Iraq or the 800,000 deaths in Rwanda or the 250,000 deaths in the Sudan. Furthermore, Saddam tried to assassinate GW Bush’s father, Bush 41. Regardless of what you think about the Bush family, that has to mean something to you if you are a true American.

  4. Dave Congalton
    July 12, 2006 at 4:45 pm

    Rich,
    Another 24 people were pulled off buses today and executed. The wave of sectarian violence has been on the increase since Sunday. Even the prime minister is concerned about the outbreak of civil war and whether or not it can be contained.

    We rushed into a war, making up reasons as we went. We tried to fight this war on the cheap and we were never prepared to preserve the peace.

    You can attack the N.Y. Times all you want — it’s such a predictable conservative strategy. And look at those links you provide us — National Review??? Yeah, like they’re completely unbiased.

    This is going to get worse before it gets better.

  5. Rich from Paso
    July 12, 2006 at 6:59 pm

    Dave,

    Okay, granted NRO biased, but it is no more conservatively biased than the New York Times is liberally biased. You failed to mention the article written by an Iraqi. Is he too biased to be believed, too? Comment on that one if you would, please.

    Went to war on the cheap, making up reasons as we went, blah blah blah. Same old liberal talking points. Fact is that, beyond the threat of WMDs, 350,000 innocent people murdered by Saddam should have been reason enough alone to go to war. The fact that Saddam Hussein used chemical weapons on his own people as a process of murdering those 350,000 should have been reason enough to go to war. The fact that Saddam made overtures to al Qaeda and gave Zarqawi sanctuary after the Taliban fell in Afghanistan should have been reason enough to go to war. The Left appears to need a Pearl Harbor on American soil as provocation to go to war. Then why did we bomb Serbia? Why did we go into Bosnia? Why did Clinton expand the mission in Somalia? Huh, Dave?

    Iraq may get worse before it gets better, it may just get better, but it will not degenerate into civil war unless the United States lets the “cut and run” crowd talk us into losing this war.

    The bombing attack on the Indians yesterday should be a reminder that the terrorists make up thier reasons for killing innocent civilians as they go along. Kashmir has been a bone of contention for the last 50 years. Why now did a Muslim extremist group (as yet unnamed) feel it necessary to murder 200 civilians as they rode buses? The fact is that both sides have a choice in war; the good guys and the bad guys. The war continues until both sides decide its over. Right now the terrorists are doing a good job of keeping the war going in Iraq. We can either admit defeat and go home, or we can continue to kill the sonzabitches everywhere we find them. Face it, Dave, you and the liberals in America are in a worse position than Bush is. Either you are seen as a quiter or you are seen as a complainer with no solution of your own. yes, it will get worse before it gets better. We lost 50K on D-Day, we got our asses kicked at Market Garden, we were getting our asses kicked at the Bastogne and the Battle of the Bulge. Did we quit? Did we lament the loss of of those 250,000 American troops and did we count them with a small amount of glee when every new milestone was reached? Did we question why we were at war with Germany when it was Japan that attacked us on 12/7? The answer to all of those questions is: NO. Did we perserver and achieve victory in Europe? YES. That is what we need to do now. I answered what I would do if I was in charge (an adendum to my previous post on the subject: I would push American troops to the borders to guard against foreign fighters and al Qaeda from infiltrating in from Syria and Iran in particular), what is your plan that would be so radically different from Bush’s, Dave? What, if anything would separate your plan from mine or Bush’s plan? I have a guess that you have no plan or even an acorn’s worth of an idea. You just hate what you see going on and feel compelled to rail against it. I stand ready to be proven wrong.

    I attack the New York Times because they have no concept of “national security” when it comes to bashing Bush. What do you have to say about the editorial from NRO? Don’t they make a great point about the NYT’s hypocracy and the need to prosecute leakers? Oh, that’s right, the NYTs is beyond scrutany because they have 1st Amendment protection. The NYT was asked by everyone from the 9/11 commissioners, Murtha, to people in the Administration not to run the finance story. The NYT did hold the NSA program story for a year before running it to promote Risen’s book on the subject (which, BTW, exposed the Clinton Administration of giving the Iranians nuclear technology in a stupid ploy to fool them). The NYTs cherry-picks their stories worse than the Bush Administration could ever have with the pre-war intel.

    Well, Dave, here is a hypothetical for you: I have a secret. You know that secret. You are a member of the media. Are you compelled to tell my secret because you are in the media or is there some things more important than exposing every secret for the sake of exposing them?

  6. Anonymous
    July 13, 2006 at 2:26 pm

    It took a civil war in the United States to begin the process of civil rights. So in Iraq there is a 2 pronged front, both of which are successful.
    First, the war on terror and islamic extremists. We will win this war even after we hold congress and the house in 2006 and the white house in 2008
    Second, Civil rights are basic to democracy. The cleansing of the radical elements in Iraq are necessary for that process. Some may die that many will live…in peace!
    If the democants dont have the stomach for American politics they sure can’t lead this nation internationally.
    Vote republican and keep America strong and the world free!
    OK radical liberal leftists…blog on as you loose even more ground not only in this country but in the world. You all didn’t just screw things up here…You are a discrace internationally.

  7. chazw/sons
    July 15, 2006 at 12:53 pm

    Help
    There seems to be no end of all the division in our country.

    I’m just a mom
    Who feels helpless to understand all the political crap.

    I don’t want anyone’s child to die in a war.
    I don’t feel we can ever make peace in the East either.
    I DO believe that we must help somehow.

    What can we do?
    Our own backyards need more help than we are giving–New Orleans

    Is it really because our N’awlins people were poor that they were ignored?

    I’m scared for my children
    Scared because I’m not sure that any of our voices matter

    *are we only good for our national resources and our children as soldiers?

    Are we destined to repeat Rome’s history/downfall
    Or is there hope for us to become a learned society

    If we cannot take care of our own
    How can we weaken ourselves by scattering our lives all over the world?

    At what cost

    I’m also sickened by the absolute GLEE fellow democrats –yep I am one of ‘those’
    Belittle and gossip about our Republican leaders

    Actually had someone sing to me a ditty about our President’s supposed affair

    I soooooooooo don’t care
    If it’s not illegal
    How does it matter to us
    Come on p o l i t i c i a n s
    lie?

    There are life and death decisions being made
    Why instead do my fellow citizens act like government equals a gossip rag/Enquirer-like fodder?

  8. Anonymous
    July 18, 2006 at 2:06 am

    Who i nthe hell made it the governments job to help out people when disaster strikes? If my house burns down, it is my problem, not the problem of the taxpayers in another state. The people of new orleans need to go to work and fix their place. The area is booming. The lazy a holes that were on welfare there have been lied to for generations by the liberal government giving them free stuff in order to keep in their poverty and their government run hellish housing. These are the real victims. They have been kept in their place by a government of the has told them no need to work, vote democratic we will help and you can have you slave housing.

    It is sick.

  9. Bob from San Luis
    July 18, 2006 at 4:00 am

    chazw/sons: Why instead do my fellow citizens act like government equals a gossip rag/Enquirer-like fodder?

    Perhaps the media is cowed, perhaps those in charge of the government would have us treat the results of their “leadership” as gossip to keep us from asking the hard questions. In past administrations the mere hint of a political scandal sent many of those would do harm to our country’s reputation scurrying for the nearest exit door in the White House. Please remember that Nixon would have been impeached if he had tried to fight against the charges that were being arraigned against him. Ford was derided for his pardon of Nixon, and Carter was “scandalized” by his remarks of “having lust in my heart”. Had we have had a Congress with the resolve to unearth the truth about the Iran-Contra situation during Reagan’s term, he could have been brought up on charges of “high crimes”. Bush 41 had his conections with Iran-Contra and could have been removed from office prior to his presidency. We all remember Clinton’s indiscretion; he lied to Congress! He was voted on for impeachment, but the trial in the Senate to remove him never had a chance of happening. The reason I brought all of that up is to compare the previous presidents “scandals” with all of the intentional mis-deeds that President Bush has foisted upon we the people since he was appointed by the Supreme Court to the White House. How many of his cabinet members came from the industries that they were/are supposed to regulate? How many have since left and gone right back into the same industry? In any Democrat President’s term, the Republicans would have had tizzy fits about “conflict of interests”; have you heard of one Republican questioning any of Bush’s team? I for one think that this administration wants us to not know what it is that they are doing on purpose. I heard a political analyst remark that we are currently in a “pre-fascist” state or “pro-to-fascist”; that is we are one major step away from becoming an actual fascist country. If we have another major terrorist attack happen in America, the implementation of a police state (martial law) with a restriction on free speech or the press, and we will become a fascist state. I want to be proven wrong on this and until we have a new President that is actually elected with no taint of election fraud, I don’t think that I can be proven wrong, I just really hope that I am.

  10. chazw/sons
    July 29, 2006 at 5:29 pm

    Hi Bob in SLO,

    The facist United States thang…
    will we not care if we are called fasists
    if we feel safer?

    Does our government side with and create laws in favor of the wealthy
    because
    the wealthy rule
    or because our nation has always pandered to enterprise?

    I don’t know

    I do know that I believe many of our ‘public’ /ly run businesses are under attack

    Don’t know where the lines are drawn
    I do know that once the government gets involved
    there are too many people
    to please

    What are your feelings about public schools, for instance?
    I feel that trying to please every single minority/health/social difference is just not possible.

    What do you think it will take for Joe-smo working blue-collar grunt to care about politics?

    I hope you are wrong too. I hope we could rally around a president untouched by greed.

  11. chazw/sons
    July 29, 2006 at 6:22 pm

    Hi Bob in San Luis,

    The fascist United States thang…
    Will we care if we are called fascists…
    If we feel safer?

    Fear sells
    Most ads seem to use fear
    I admit I am afraid
    Afraid for my children and their future

    Does our government side with and create laws in favor of the wealthy
    because
    the wealthy rule
    Or because our nation has always promoted free enterprise?

    I don’t know

    I do know that I believe many of our ‘public’ /ly run businesses are under attack

    Don’t know where the lines are drawn
    I do know that once the government gets involved
    There are too many people
    to please

    What are your feelings about public schools, for instance?
    I feel that trying to please every single minority/health/social difference is just not possible.

    What do you think it will take for Joe-smo working blue-collar grunt to care about politics?

    I hope you are wrong, too.
    I hope we could rally around a president untouched by greed.
    Hope that we rally as United States Citizen’s soon.

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